Originally posted by Luzod
Bingo.
I'm more of a euchre fan myself, sorry.
Bingo.
I'm more of a euchre fan myself, sorry.
PP
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Originally posted by joemiken
I'm gonna take a wild guess and say that most returnmen have low confidence, stamina and carrying.
I really did understand many LBs complaining about needing speed, vision, agility, tkling & str all to the 68 cap in order not to have a massive hole in their builds. That's a lot of points, but, come on, all returners need to 68 are speed, agility & carrying. That's EASILY doable. Most want all the glamor of being able to average 40 yds per return and put up TDs, but are unwilling to do the work of holding on to the ball. That's 100% their choice to make, but, if they go that route, is it really unreasonable to expect a bunch of fumbles?
I bet less than 2% of all fumbles occurred with returners even at 60 carrying and just somewhat reasonable stam and conf (I purposefully left those out Joe....Thanks for ruining that
). Why is it that everyone can understand and accept the need for 68 in speed and agility, but not in something as basic as carrying for a dot that's going to be going against supposedly 250 + lbs, high str & tkl dots that are running full speed and trying to rip their little dot head off?
I'm gonna take a wild guess and say that most returnmen have low confidence, stamina and carrying.
I really did understand many LBs complaining about needing speed, vision, agility, tkling & str all to the 68 cap in order not to have a massive hole in their builds. That's a lot of points, but, come on, all returners need to 68 are speed, agility & carrying. That's EASILY doable. Most want all the glamor of being able to average 40 yds per return and put up TDs, but are unwilling to do the work of holding on to the ball. That's 100% their choice to make, but, if they go that route, is it really unreasonable to expect a bunch of fumbles?
I bet less than 2% of all fumbles occurred with returners even at 60 carrying and just somewhat reasonable stam and conf (I purposefully left those out Joe....Thanks for ruining that
). Why is it that everyone can understand and accept the need for 68 in speed and agility, but not in something as basic as carrying for a dot that's going to be going against supposedly 250 + lbs, high str & tkl dots that are running full speed and trying to rip their little dot head off?Hukton Vioxx
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The more I watch games the more fumbles just seem to be turned up too high to begin with...these specialized STers just exacerbate the situation for KR/PRs, but everyone just seems to be fumbling an awful lot. Needs to be turned down a notch, but still significantly higher than last season...
Galkuris
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I honestly haven't seen a huge problem with it yet. How many of those return men have under 40 carrying/confidence and low stamina, and under 30 strength?
lawdawg95
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Originally posted by Galkuris
I honestly haven't seen a huge problem with it yet. How many of those return men have under 40 carrying/confidence and low stamina, and under 30 strength?
Not ours and he put two on the ground in Game 1. He's well over all of those numbers.
I honestly haven't seen a huge problem with it yet. How many of those return men have under 40 carrying/confidence and low stamina, and under 30 strength?
Not ours and he put two on the ground in Game 1. He's well over all of those numbers.
joemiken
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Originally posted by PP
I bet less than 2% of all fumbles occurred with returners even at 60 carrying and just somewhat reasonable stam and conf (I purposefully left those out Joe....Thanks for ruining that ). Why is it that everyone can understand and accept the need for 68 in speed and agility, but not in something as basic as carrying for a dot that's going to be going against supposedly 250 + lbs, high str & tkl dots that are running full speed and trying to rip their little dot head off?
I don't think it's as easy as saying "bump carrying to x amount = awesome". The fumbling problems we're seeing now is rooted not only in builds, but one key change Bort made in the offseason. I'd bet large sums of money that dumping a ton of SP into carrying won't completely solve the problem. It's a two-fold issue and boosting carrying is the easy part.
I bet less than 2% of all fumbles occurred with returners even at 60 carrying and just somewhat reasonable stam and conf (I purposefully left those out Joe....Thanks for ruining that
). Why is it that everyone can understand and accept the need for 68 in speed and agility, but not in something as basic as carrying for a dot that's going to be going against supposedly 250 + lbs, high str & tkl dots that are running full speed and trying to rip their little dot head off?I don't think it's as easy as saying "bump carrying to x amount = awesome". The fumbling problems we're seeing now is rooted not only in builds, but one key change Bort made in the offseason. I'd bet large sums of money that dumping a ton of SP into carrying won't completely solve the problem. It's a two-fold issue and boosting carrying is the easy part.
Last edited Apr 27, 2009 12:43:44
Luzod
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Originally posted by Galkuris
I honestly haven't seen a huge problem with it yet. How many of those return men have under 40 carrying/confidence and low stamina, and under 30 strength?
Lol, exactly.
I honestly haven't seen a huge problem with it yet. How many of those return men have under 40 carrying/confidence and low stamina, and under 30 strength?
Lol, exactly.
Last edited Apr 27, 2009 12:49:10
Galkuris
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Originally posted by lawdawg95
Originally posted by Galkuris
I honestly haven't seen a huge problem with it yet. How many of those return men have under 40 carrying/confidence and low stamina, and under 30 strength?
Not ours and he put two on the ground in Game 1. He's well over all of those numbers.
Ya, I retract my statement. Since saying it I've gotten a couple people saying that they are over that and still fumbling quite often.
Originally posted by Galkuris
I honestly haven't seen a huge problem with it yet. How many of those return men have under 40 carrying/confidence and low stamina, and under 30 strength?
Not ours and he put two on the ground in Game 1. He's well over all of those numbers.
Ya, I retract my statement. Since saying it I've gotten a couple people saying that they are over that and still fumbling quite often.
Luzod
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Originally posted by Galkuris
Originally posted by lawdawg95
Originally posted by Galkuris
I honestly haven't seen a huge problem with it yet. How many of those return men have under 40 carrying/confidence and low stamina, and under 30 strength?
Not ours and he put two on the ground in Game 1. He's well over all of those numbers.
Ya, I retract my statement. Since saying it I've gotten a couple people saying that they are over that and still fumbling quite often.
It's because of Special Teamer VA.
If you have 50 carrying -> 57.5 carrying with the VA
if you have 60 strength and 60 tackling --> 69 strength/tackling with the VA
Investing on carrying will prevent fumbles. If I'm not mistaken, or returner only fumbled once so far.
Originally posted by lawdawg95
Originally posted by Galkuris
I honestly haven't seen a huge problem with it yet. How many of those return men have under 40 carrying/confidence and low stamina, and under 30 strength?
Not ours and he put two on the ground in Game 1. He's well over all of those numbers.
Ya, I retract my statement. Since saying it I've gotten a couple people saying that they are over that and still fumbling quite often.
It's because of Special Teamer VA.
If you have 50 carrying -> 57.5 carrying with the VA
if you have 60 strength and 60 tackling --> 69 strength/tackling with the VA
Investing on carrying will prevent fumbles. If I'm not mistaken, or returner only fumbled once so far.
lawdawg95
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Originally posted by Luzod
It's because of Special Teamer VA.
If you have 50 carrying -> 57.5 carrying with the VA
if you have 60 strength and 60 tackling --> 69 strength/tackling with the VA
Investing on carrying will prevent fumbles. If I'm not mistaken, or returner only fumbled once so far.
I really don't think it's that simple this season. I absolutely agree that returners should be amping up carrying and strength, but a CB who is in the ballpark of those ranges shouldn't be laying it on the ground this often.
I'm running an experiment today in a scrimmage and giving The Tick all of our kick returns. If he fumbles then you know there's an issue.
It's because of Special Teamer VA.
If you have 50 carrying -> 57.5 carrying with the VA
if you have 60 strength and 60 tackling --> 69 strength/tackling with the VA
Investing on carrying will prevent fumbles. If I'm not mistaken, or returner only fumbled once so far.
I really don't think it's that simple this season. I absolutely agree that returners should be amping up carrying and strength, but a CB who is in the ballpark of those ranges shouldn't be laying it on the ground this often.
I'm running an experiment today in a scrimmage and giving The Tick all of our kick returns. If he fumbles then you know there's an issue.
Luzod
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Originally posted by lawdawg95
Originally posted by Luzod
It's because of Special Teamer VA.
If you have 50 carrying -> 57.5 carrying with the VA
if you have 60 strength and 60 tackling --> 69 strength/tackling with the VA
Investing on carrying will prevent fumbles. If I'm not mistaken, or returner only fumbled once so far.
I really don't think it's that simple this season. I absolutely agree that returners should be amping up carrying and strength, but a CB who is in the ballpark of those ranges shouldn't be laying it on the ground this often.
I'm running an experiment today in a scrimmage and giving The Tick all of our kick returns. If he fumbles then you know there's an issue.
Unless the Tick has some ST VA, I'd say he'll fumble.
Why don't you ask for someone to test it on test server? We'd get the right answer there for sure.
Originally posted by Luzod
It's because of Special Teamer VA.
If you have 50 carrying -> 57.5 carrying with the VA
if you have 60 strength and 60 tackling --> 69 strength/tackling with the VA
Investing on carrying will prevent fumbles. If I'm not mistaken, or returner only fumbled once so far.
I really don't think it's that simple this season. I absolutely agree that returners should be amping up carrying and strength, but a CB who is in the ballpark of those ranges shouldn't be laying it on the ground this often.
I'm running an experiment today in a scrimmage and giving The Tick all of our kick returns. If he fumbles then you know there's an issue.
Unless the Tick has some ST VA, I'd say he'll fumble.
Why don't you ask for someone to test it on test server? We'd get the right answer there for sure.
lawdawg95
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Originally posted by Luzod
Unless the Tick has some ST VA, I'd say he'll fumble.
Why don't you ask for someone to test it on test server? We'd get the right answer there for sure.
7 KRs for 186yds and 0 fumbles
Unless the Tick has some ST VA, I'd say he'll fumble.
Why don't you ask for someone to test it on test server? We'd get the right answer there for sure.
7 KRs for 186yds and 0 fumbles
Luzod
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Originally posted by lawdawg95
Originally posted by Luzod
Unless the Tick has some ST VA, I'd say he'll fumble.
Why don't you ask for someone to test it on test server? We'd get the right answer there for sure.
7 KRs for 186yds and 0 fumbles
Well, even better than I thought.
Originally posted by Luzod
Unless the Tick has some ST VA, I'd say he'll fumble.
Why don't you ask for someone to test it on test server? We'd get the right answer there for sure.
7 KRs for 186yds and 0 fumbles
Well, even better than I thought.
lawdawg95
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Originally posted by Luzod
Well, even better than I thought.
The odd thing is that the only kicking game fumble was a fumbled punt by Chicago's HB Steve Blazer that we took for a TD.
Well, even better than I thought.
The odd thing is that the only kicking game fumble was a fumbled punt by Chicago's HB Steve Blazer that we took for a TD.
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