Warrior General Games

the concept of a slower CB keeping up with a receiver in coverage isn't that odd.

example: Nnamdi Asomugha

What Mob-6 is saying is...
Yes, your WR is fast
But if a corner knows play his position *aka, he is well built*, he will be able to cover your WR.

I use to play some Collegiate ball and i will tell you Speed doesn't create the separation you want, its a combination of good speed, great agility, and good vision.
ex: Jerry Rice

Originally posted by Mob-6
Originally posted by doubletree



So if my WR has a good season I shouldn't complain regardless? Obviously I wasn't unhappy about his numbers but I don't see a problem with what I'm asking for. Do you think a CB with 75 speed should be able to consistently run with a WR with 100 speed?

There needs to be checks and balances so you don't have untackleable high strength players and untouchable speedsters. Do you really want a 1 attribute game? If you do, then everyone one will jack speed to 200 and ignore other attributes. Where does that get you? If you want even players who have the game just decided by tactics, Peewee teams are looking for good players.

If speed effects were to be increased to the point where every time someone caught a ball it was a guaranteed TD like in season 6 or earlier it will destroy the game. There has to be a building trade off. If they do this, than catching would have to be nerfed down so that you wouldn't be able to catch the ball with less than 80 catching, 70 vision and 70 carrying. This would force you to take less and reasonable speed because no one is going to sign you with 110 speed and a catching rate of 5%. Is that really where you want the game to go? Currently that speed difference between the CB and WR seems to scale. A CB keeps up with a percentage of the WRs speed, but if you are a faster WR you still gain more separation that a guy with10 less speed. What does that mean? The guy with 10 faster speed still has a speed advantage taken account into his roll despite the defender being on top of him. The slower WR may have the defender right on top of him, but his extra attribute points help him reel in the catch via better catching rolls. Not a hard concept to grasp and it is currently very well balanced. Guys who sacrifice on other attributes at the expense of speed have worse catching ratios, down right bad. Guys who build balanced guys succeed, slow possession guys succeed, fast speed guys succeed. This is the best SIM in terms of realism and fairness this game has had at WR. Believe me, I would love it if they would roll back the sim to season 5 and my WR would be the best since Flames, but they aren't doing that and I am happy with where my speedster and possession WR are in terms of the game and their builds. Bort has it down right real right now, if anything it favors passing to much. We shouldn't be seeing 80% +passing completion rates again.


Originally posted by doubletree


And what does my WR's level have to do with it? I'm not just talking about him and ya he is my first WR so I am not going to claim that I know how to build a WR better than you do. Again, I don't think I'm asking for much in thinking that a faster WR by a large margin should be faster on the field. I'd like to hear your response to the above question.


Level 25 WRs can rely on significantly less attributes to succeed. I could load up a level 10 guy with nothing, but speed and have him dominate. As you get higher in level, you are forced to balance out your build and start to cap other attributes or else it will adversely impact your catching percentages. You don't really see the effects of that at level 25. Once you get into your mid 30s you'll start to see the stagnation plateau. If you want speed to show up as a significant visual advantage to blow by people, there will have to be a catching trade off as I said. The requirements to catch will go up and people will be forced to take less speed because the catching rate will be ineffective. Of course the other positions who don't have to catch like RB and FB and CB and QB will be able to blow through everyone because there won't be any rushing penalties for speed and thus the WR will die a horrible death as other skill positions are more effective than they are.



But if this is what you want...more power to you.


I do think that WRs should be able to run by slower CBs as a CB can easily match speed if they want to, especially since they don't have to worry about catching. A CB could build to shut down a speedster WR, shutdown a possession WR, or build something in between to try and slow both down in this situation. Why should a CB only have to get to 90+ speed and be able to pump up other attributes and be able to guard a speedster WR and a possession WR? If a team doesn't have a CB(s) fast enough to guard fast WRs that should be their own fault. I know this isn't the NFL but some NFL corners are better at guarding one type of WR or the other and often need safety help against the other type of WR.

I see what your worried about but the defender has the option to build their defender just as fast. Just like defenders could have built stronger better tackling LBs instead of so much speed/agility to counter powerbacks (though I do think there is/was a problem with gang tackling). Instead people want powerbacks nerfed. Offensive lineman could have built players with as much agility/speed (almost, due to lesser level gains) as defensive ends but instead most were built for strength/blocking and didn't put enough into agility/speed. Thus DE's were nerfed. Why not allow agents to counter builds with builds instead of giving an advantage to one side or the other?

Originally posted by whatje
the concept of a slower CB keeping up with a receiver in coverage isn't that odd.

example: Nnamdi Asomugha

The concept of a WR running right past a slower CB isn't odd at all. I could give you several examples.

Originally posted by Ladyzman
What Mob-6 is saying is...
Yes, your WR is fast
But if a corner knows play his position *aka, he is well built*, he will be able to cover your WR.

I use to play some Collegiate ball and i will tell you Speed doesn't create the separation you want, its a combination of good speed, great agility, and good vision.
ex: Jerry Rice

I imagine most of us on this site played football and I can tell you that a faster WR running a fly route can and will run right by a slower CB if not given a big enough cushion.

Originally posted by doubletree
Originally posted by Mob-6

Originally posted by doubletree




So if my WR has a good season I shouldn't complain regardless? Obviously I wasn't unhappy about his numbers but I don't see a problem with what I'm asking for. Do you think a CB with 75 speed should be able to consistently run with a WR with 100 speed?

There needs to be checks and balances so you don't have untackleable high strength players and untouchable speedsters. Do you really want a 1 attribute game? If you do, then everyone one will jack speed to 200 and ignore other attributes. Where does that get you? If you want even players who have the game just decided by tactics, Peewee teams are looking for good players.

If speed effects were to be increased to the point where every time someone caught a ball it was a guaranteed TD like in season 6 or earlier it will destroy the game. There has to be a building trade off. If they do this, than catching would have to be nerfed down so that you wouldn't be able to catch the ball with less than 80 catching, 70 vision and 70 carrying. This would force you to take less and reasonable speed because no one is going to sign you with 110 speed and a catching rate of 5%. Is that really where you want the game to go? Currently that speed difference between the CB and WR seems to scale. A CB keeps up with a percentage of the WRs speed, but if you are a faster WR you still gain more separation that a guy with10 less speed. What does that mean? The guy with 10 faster speed still has a speed advantage taken account into his roll despite the defender being on top of him. The slower WR may have the defender right on top of him, but his extra attribute points help him reel in the catch via better catching rolls. Not a hard concept to grasp and it is currently very well balanced. Guys who sacrifice on other attributes at the expense of speed have worse catching ratios, down right bad. Guys who build balanced guys succeed, slow possession guys succeed, fast speed guys succeed. This is the best SIM in terms of realism and fairness this game has had at WR. Believe me, I would love it if they would roll back the sim to season 5 and my WR would be the best since Flames, but they aren't doing that and I am happy with where my speedster and possession WR are in terms of the game and their builds. Bort has it down right real right now, if anything it favors passing to much. We shouldn't be seeing 80% +passing completion rates again.


Originally posted by doubletree



And what does my WR's level have to do with it? I'm not just talking about him and ya he is my first WR so I am not going to claim that I know how to build a WR better than you do. Again, I don't think I'm asking for much in thinking that a faster WR by a large margin should be faster on the field. I'd like to hear your response to the above question.


Level 25 WRs can rely on significantly less attributes to succeed. I could load up a level 10 guy with nothing, but speed and have him dominate. As you get higher in level, you are forced to balance out your build and start to cap other attributes or else it will adversely impact your catching percentages. You don't really see the effects of that at level 25. Once you get into your mid 30s you'll start to see the stagnation plateau. If you want speed to show up as a significant visual advantage to blow by people, there will have to be a catching trade off as I said. The requirements to catch will go up and people will be forced to take less speed because the catching rate will be ineffective. Of course the other positions who don't have to catch like RB and FB and CB and QB will be able to blow through everyone because there won't be any rushing penalties for speed and thus the WR will die a horrible death as other skill positions are more effective than they are.



But if this is what you want...more power to you.


I do think that WRs should be able to run by slower CBs as a CB can easily match speed if they want to, especially since they don't have to worry about catching. A CB could build to shut down a speedster WR, shutdown a possession WR, or build something in between to try and slow both down in this situation. Why should a CB only have to get to 90+ speed and be able to pump up other attributes and be able to guard a speedster WR and a possession WR? If a team doesn't have a CB(s) fast enough to guard fast WRs that should be their own fault. I know this isn't the NFL but some NFL corners are better at guarding one type of WR or the other and often need safety help against the other type of WR.

I see what your worried about but the defender has the option to build their defender just as fast. Just like defenders could have built stronger better tackling LBs instead of so much speed/agility to counter powerbacks (though I do think there is/was a problem with gang tackling). Instead people want powerbacks nerfed. Offensive lineman could have built players with as much agility/speed (almost, due to lesser level gains) as defensive ends but instead most were built for strength/blocking and didn't put enough into agility/speed. Thus DE's were nerfed. Why not allow agents to counter builds with builds instead of giving an advantage to one side or the other?

Your hopeless until you can see the bigger picture. CBs need to get more than 1 stat high to be successful. If they just plug speed to keep up with speedsters they will never be good enough to break up the pass, even if they stay with the WR which they likely won't do to low vision and agility. So until you understand that you'll keep arguing that you should be able to build a one dimensional player and have him be overpowered. It ain't going to happen, from now on I'll consider your posts trolling as the evidence has been put in front of you and you are CHOOSING to ignore it. 110 speed WRs do have distinct differences in playing against 90 speed corners as compared to 90 speed WRs. Were you not around for season 5 and 6? All you needed to be successful was speed. People tried to counter that with speed and the game got vanilla boring. If all you need to train and point is speed, why even enjoy building diversity? Maybe you should play a game that is completely preplanned out and offers little choice, I would suggest Connect 4 or tic tac toe for starters.

Originally posted by doubletree
Originally posted by Ladyzman

What Mob-6 is saying is...
Yes, your WR is fast
But if a corner knows play his position *aka, he is well built*, he will be able to cover your WR.

I use to play some Collegiate ball and i will tell you Speed doesn't create the separation you want, its a combination of good speed, great agility, and good vision.
ex: Jerry Rice

I imagine most of us on this site played football and I can tell you that a faster WR running a fly route can and will run right by a slower CB if not given a big enough cushion.

I fully agree, lol. I loved running past much slower or horrible corners. However, when it came to more skilled corners it was different. If your OC doesn't know how to use your speed, if the quarterback cant launch it out fast enough, if you just don't have the gas to go 0-100, these are all element that can factor in on why your speedster can get his full speed going and why maybe a 90 speed corner can cover 110 WR.
Actually, looking at what i wrote it makes more sense. Think of the equation bort has to put in. Now just think if you factored a 110 and 90 speed into i guess 40 times. 110 would be wha, a 4.1 and a 90 would be a 4.2. Yes there is a difference but a very slim because both are amazingly fast. You should understand, if you played football. Yes, i can run a 4.45 and yes i get seperation against people that run 4.7+ but those people near the 4.45 or faster can keep up near me, especially if they are skilled (well built)

Originally posted by doubletree
Originally posted by whatje

the concept of a slower CB keeping up with a receiver in coverage isn't that odd.

example: Nnamdi Asomugha

The concept of a WR running right past a slower CB isn't odd at all. I could give you several examples.

The point is not to highlight a WR's ability to beat a poor CB, but a high quality CB's ability to cover a faster WR. But thank you for your enlightening response regardless.

Originally posted by whatje
Originally posted by doubletree

Originally posted by whatje


the concept of a slower CB keeping up with a receiver in coverage isn't that odd.

example: Nnamdi Asomugha

The concept of a WR running right past a slower CB isn't odd at all. I could give you several examples.

The point is not to highlight a WR's ability to beat a poor CB, but a high quality CB's ability to cover a faster WR. But thank you for your enlightening response regardless.

I know what your point was but not every CB in GLB is high quality like Nnamdi is. Its not even that these CBs are that well built, its just the way the game works.

I'm just trying to have a conversation about something related to GLB and you and many others often result to sarcasm and what not.

Originally posted by Mob-6
Originally posted by doubletree

Originally posted by Mob-6


Originally posted by doubletree





So if my WR has a good season I shouldn't complain regardless? Obviously I wasn't unhappy about his numbers but I don't see a problem with what I'm asking for. Do you think a CB with 75 speed should be able to consistently run with a WR with 100 speed?

There needs to be checks and balances so you don't have untackleable high strength players and untouchable speedsters. Do you really want a 1 attribute game? If you do, then everyone one will jack speed to 200 and ignore other attributes. Where does that get you? If you want even players who have the game just decided by tactics, Peewee teams are looking for good players.

If speed effects were to be increased to the point where every time someone caught a ball it was a guaranteed TD like in season 6 or earlier it will destroy the game. There has to be a building trade off. If they do this, than catching would have to be nerfed down so that you wouldn't be able to catch the ball with less than 80 catching, 70 vision and 70 carrying. This would force you to take less and reasonable speed because no one is going to sign you with 110 speed and a catching rate of 5%. Is that really where you want the game to go? Currently that speed difference between the CB and WR seems to scale. A CB keeps up with a percentage of the WRs speed, but if you are a faster WR you still gain more separation that a guy with10 less speed. What does that mean? The guy with 10 faster speed still has a speed advantage taken account into his roll despite the defender being on top of him. The slower WR may have the defender right on top of him, but his extra attribute points help him reel in the catch via better catching rolls. Not a hard concept to grasp and it is currently very well balanced. Guys who sacrifice on other attributes at the expense of speed have worse catching ratios, down right bad. Guys who build balanced guys succeed, slow possession guys succeed, fast speed guys succeed. This is the best SIM in terms of realism and fairness this game has had at WR. Believe me, I would love it if they would roll back the sim to season 5 and my WR would be the best since Flames, but they aren't doing that and I am happy with where my speedster and possession WR are in terms of the game and their builds. Bort has it down right real right now, if anything it favors passing to much. We shouldn't be seeing 80% +passing completion rates again.


Originally posted by doubletree




And what does my WR's level have to do with it? I'm not just talking about him and ya he is my first WR so I am not going to claim that I know how to build a WR better than you do. Again, I don't think I'm asking for much in thinking that a faster WR by a large margin should be faster on the field. I'd like to hear your response to the above question.


Level 25 WRs can rely on significantly less attributes to succeed. I could load up a level 10 guy with nothing, but speed and have him dominate. As you get higher in level, you are forced to balance out your build and start to cap other attributes or else it will adversely impact your catching percentages. You don't really see the effects of that at level 25. Once you get into your mid 30s you'll start to see the stagnation plateau. If you want speed to show up as a significant visual advantage to blow by people, there will have to be a catching trade off as I said. The requirements to catch will go up and people will be forced to take less speed because the catching rate will be ineffective. Of course the other positions who don't have to catch like RB and FB and CB and QB will be able to blow through everyone because there won't be any rushing penalties for speed and thus the WR will die a horrible death as other skill positions are more effective than they are.



But if this is what you want...more power to you.


I do think that WRs should be able to run by slower CBs as a CB can easily match speed if they want to, especially since they don't have to worry about catching. A CB could build to shut down a speedster WR, shutdown a possession WR, or build something in between to try and slow both down in this situation. Why should a CB only have to get to 90+ speed and be able to pump up other attributes and be able to guard a speedster WR and a possession WR? If a team doesn't have a CB(s) fast enough to guard fast WRs that should be their own fault. I know this isn't the NFL but some NFL corners are better at guarding one type of WR or the other and often need safety help against the other type of WR.

I see what your worried about but the defender has the option to build their defender just as fast. Just like defenders could have built stronger better tackling LBs instead of so much speed/agility to counter powerbacks (though I do think there is/was a problem with gang tackling). Instead people want powerbacks nerfed. Offensive lineman could have built players with as much agility/speed (almost, due to lesser level gains) as defensive ends but instead most were built for strength/blocking and didn't put enough into agility/speed. Thus DE's were nerfed. Why not allow agents to counter builds with builds instead of giving an advantage to one side or the other?

Your hopeless until you can see the bigger picture. CBs need to get more than 1 stat high to be successful. If they just plug speed to keep up with speedsters they will never be good enough to break up the pass, even if they stay with the WR which they likely won't do to low vision and agility. So until you understand that you'll keep arguing that you should be able to build a one dimensional player and have him be overpowered. It ain't going to happen, from now on I'll consider your posts trolling as the evidence has been put in front of you and you are CHOOSING to ignore it. 110 speed WRs do have distinct differences in playing against 90 speed corners as compared to 90 speed WRs. Were you not around for season 5 and 6? All you needed to be successful was speed. People tried to counter that with speed and the game got vanilla boring. If all you need to train and point is speed, why even enjoy building diversity? Maybe you should play a game that is completely preplanned out and offers little choice, I would suggest Connect 4 or tic tac toe for starters.

Do WRs not need agility/vision/jumping/etc. that CBs also need? WRs also need catching which CBs do not so CBs should not have a problem matching the other stats. A pure speed WR isn't going to do much anyways without the other stuff as is so I'm not sure where your coming from with that. And how am I CHOOSING to ignore it when I explained several situations (WR/powerback/DE) where they were nerfed instead of allowing the opposing player to counter it with their build. Like I said above, I was just trying to have a conversation about something but I guess on here some people have to turn into an internet thug.

Originally posted by Ladyzman
Originally posted by doubletree

Originally posted by Ladyzman


What Mob-6 is saying is...
Yes, your WR is fast
But if a corner knows play his position *aka, he is well built*, he will be able to cover your WR.

I use to play some Collegiate ball and i will tell you Speed doesn't create the separation you want, its a combination of good speed, great agility, and good vision.
ex: Jerry Rice

I imagine most of us on this site played football and I can tell you that a faster WR running a fly route can and will run right by a slower CB if not given a big enough cushion.

I fully agree, lol. I loved running past much slower or horrible corners. However, when it came to more skilled corners it was different. If your OC doesn't know how to use your speed, if the quarterback cant launch it out fast enough, if you just don't have the gas to go 0-100, these are all element that can factor in on why your speedster can get his full speed going and why maybe a 90 speed corner can cover 110 WR.
Actually, looking at what i wrote it makes more sense. Think of the equation bort has to put in. Now just think if you factored a 110 and 90 speed into i guess 40 times. 110 would be wha, a 4.1 and a 90 would be a 4.2. Yes there is a difference but a very slim because both are amazingly fast. You should understand, if you played football. Yes, i can run a 4.45 and yes i get seperation against people that run 4.7+ but those people near the 4.45 or faster can keep up near me, especially if they are skilled (well built)

I see what your saying but a fast guy can be outran by a faster guy, but if the difference is minimal then it won't really show up. If Bort has it coded in there to be that minimal where 20-25 points of speed isn't noticeable then I guess I wasted some SPs on it.

Originally posted by doubletree

Do WRs not need agility/vision/jumping/etc. that CBs also need? WRs also need catching which CBs do not so CBs should not have a problem matching the other stats. A pure speed WR isn't going to do much anyways without the other stuff as is so I'm not sure where your coming from with that. And how am I CHOOSING to ignore it when I explained several situations (WR/powerback/DE) where they were nerfed instead of allowing the opposing player to counter it with their build. Like I said above, I was just trying to have a conversation about something but I guess on here some people have to turn into an internet thug.

There are far too many important things for me to be wasting my time on with trying to teach a level 25 about WRs and CBs. I leave you to tier 1 tech support as trying to give you the tier 5 isn't working. Everything you said above is wrong, feel free to ask others about it, when you need something past WR building 101, I'd be happy to help you.

Originally posted by Mob-6
Originally posted by doubletree


Do WRs not need agility/vision/jumping/etc. that CBs also need? WRs also need catching which CBs do not so CBs should not have a problem matching the other stats. A pure speed WR isn't going to do much anyways without the other stuff as is so I'm not sure where your coming from with that. And how am I CHOOSING to ignore it when I explained several situations (WR/powerback/DE) where they were nerfed instead of allowing the opposing player to counter it with their build. Like I said above, I was just trying to have a conversation about something but I guess on here some people have to turn into an internet thug.

There are far too many important things for me to be wasting my time on with trying to teach a level 25 about WRs and CBs. I leave you to tier 1 tech support as trying to give you the tier 5 isn't working. Everything you said above is wrong, feel free to ask others about it, when you need something past WR building 101, I'd be happy to help you.


Do you just ramble about nothing on purpose? My question above was rhetorical. But since you know more than me, and everything above I said is wrong, then I guess your saying that WRs don't need agility/vision/jumping or catching. At this point I don't think your even reading what I type.

I don't buy the idea that CBs need so much more to be good than WRs. They both need speed and agility 3rd capped. CBs need to have vision at least 2nd capped, WRs need to have catching at least 2nd capped. They both need jumping softcaped. CBs need to train some amount of strength and tackling, WRs need to train some amount of strength and carrying. They both need confidence and stamina. CBs should probably spend more on SAs because they have much better ones, but it's not like WRs are kicking ass right out of the gate and CBs take 8 seasons to come together.

The difference is that CBs need to pour more points into their SAs to be successful.

WRs generally don't need to go beyond 5 SAs, and most only touch 3 specifically.


CBs need so much: change direction, shutdown, superior vision, swat ball, first step, smooth operator.

And to get to some of those you gotta spend in other SAs. I guarantee you a good CB level 50 has way more SPs in SAs than a level 50 WR