Warrior General Games

Originally posted by cmart102
Originally posted by jaytda4th
haha.. that is what i thought.. So for my FS to not get the bonus.. i would actually have to be lined up in man? That probably never happens for a FS really lolThat's exactly it. Any cover 1or cover 2 shell (man underneath with safety zone help) will give you the bonus. It's definatley a great VA for a FS
See, I do not believe it is that great for the reasons I outlined in the OP. Plus, if it was so great and so powerful, it would have been nerfed, which it was not.

What would you go for? Ballhawk or Jackhammer?

Originally posted by cmart102
What would you go for? Ballhawk or Jackhammer?
My safety, Aran, is in Cover 1 most of the time and I watched the preseason scrimmages to see how she was interacting during the plays. She was getting to the ball fine, covering just fine, getting to the ball when passed just fine and was helping out with running just fine as well. This was all before I placed any VA's so this was with skills and special abilities. I noticed that on the plays she registered (tackles and others) she was ~80% of the time the lone tackler during passing situations either by the CB getting pancaked, beat or blocked. I put 15 points into Sure Tackler because in those situations, if she misses a tackle, she gives up a TD and that is not what is desired from the FS. In order to help out with those tackles, I bumped 15 points into Football Genius (to work 100% of the time all of the time).

She has one missed tackle, in game 1, in run support in the box. The runner still gained yards, which I am not happy about, but I would rather have the "insurance" of a tackle instead of what Zone Specialist supposedly offers. I didn't put VA's in any force fumble tackles because they make you change from Wrap Up tackling.

I'll be honest, I don't yet buy the assumption zone ticks "off" at any time between the whistles. Doesn't happen in real life either. Makes no sense at all. Smells like over analysis.

Zone Specialist + Ball Hawk = FS written all over it.

http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=474315&pbp_id=5033098

Just wish he had caught it. Would have easily been a Pick-6.

Originally posted by FatNasty
I'll be honest, I don't yet buy the assumption zone ticks "off" at any time between the whistles. Doesn't happen in real life either. Makes no sense at all. Smells like over analysis.

It turns off when the ball is caught, or it is read as a run afaik. But so long as he is behaving in a zone manner then it is active.

Originally posted by Riggs_Inator
Originally posted by FatNasty

I'll be honest, I don't yet buy the assumption zone ticks "off" at any time between the whistles. Doesn't happen in real life either. Makes no sense at all. Smells like over analysis.

It turns off when the ball is caught, or it is read as a run afaik. But so long as he is behaving in a zone manner then it is active.

I have no reason NOT to trust you, but . . . "trust but verify." Is there a Bort stalker on this? Thanks bro.

If indeed this is the way it performs, then it could still be a very effective VA to get into position to make a play I assume, i.e., game speed?

Originally posted by FatNasty
Originally posted by Riggs_Inator

Originally posted by FatNasty


I'll be honest, I don't yet buy the assumption zone ticks "off" at any time between the whistles. Doesn't happen in real life either. Makes no sense at all. Smells like over analysis.

It turns off when the ball is caught, or it is read as a run afaik. But so long as he is behaving in a zone manner then it is active.

I have no reason NOT to trust you, but . . . "trust but verify." Is there a Bort stalker on this? Thanks bro.

If indeed this is the way it performs, then it could still be a very effective VA to get into position to make a play I assume, i.e., game speed?

There is. Though, as the Bort stalker thread is not stickied, forum search only works for usernames, and I don't have the thread bookmarked, I can't pull up the actual quote.

Okay.

Bort actually said that at some point fatnasty. Too lazy to go back and search bort posts but i've seen him post what riggs stated. I still don't understand the logic that just because the VA wasn't eliminated as an exploit, that means it doesn't work or is worthless. You can see the difference. Playing a preseason game without it and then with, let you see a slight difference (only 15% so like 8-10 points)

I'm trying a different one:

Veteran Abilities
Ball Hawk: 15
Clutch: 10
Second Wind: 10

Let's see what I can do

Here's a link to Bort's quotes regarding ZS.
http://goallineblitz.com/game/forum_thread.pl?thread_id=1684992&page=17#13775438

From a programmer's perspective, it seems like the boost is applied while the player is in zone defense *mode* (while the 'zone' boolean value is True). It would be True on plays where he's initially set to play zone defense, and then would turn to False when something happens to make the player realize he doesn't need to be dropping back into zone. So, presumably on running plays, it would apply until the player *realizes* that the ball has been handed off (not necessarily exactly when the ball is handed off), and on passing plays, I'm assuming the bonus turns off when the player realizes the ball is in the air (and makes a break towards the target).

There's obviously a variable in the code which determines whether or not the defender is in a zone coverage where he just continues to drop back, and stay between a few different targets. That's pretty much my only basis for that analysis. As a programmer, it's a lot easier to just use a variable that already exists (and seems to have a pretty reasonable correlation to what's trying to be done) than to create a new one (and all of the code associated with determining the value of the variable).

Originally posted by Yaksman
I'm assuming the bonus turns off when the player realizes the ball is in the air (and makes a break towards the target).

First, thanks for the link!!! Good catch on the *realizes*. I would agree.

Now, if the other assumption you make quoted above is true, then the VA is not completely worthless, but not very worthwhile, imo. Not much athleticism needed in the milliseconds it takes to stand around and read a play, be it pass or run, just vision. I think, in light of Bort's comment "It's only when he's playing zone coverage and trying to stop a pass. As soon as his action changes to chase down a run play, it no longer applies." that it's active until the receiver is caught and contact is made. It's active on a pass play until a stop is attempted. It becomes inactive on a run play as soon as the SS *realizes* it's a run. Man, I hope this is the case.

Yeah, when I first read the details I assumed it meant for the duration of any play that starts off with the defender in zone coverage. But Bort's quotes really clear that up nicely. There are some finer details to flesh out, but it's definitely not the OMFG PWN ability that I originally thought.

I still think it's ok, but I think Ball Hawk is the new FS VA.

Originally posted by FatNasty
Originally posted by Yaksman

I'm assuming the bonus turns off when the player realizes the ball is in the air (and makes a break towards the target).

First, thanks for the link!!! Good catch on the *realizes*. I would agree.

Now, if the other assumption you make quoted above is true, then the VA is not completely worthless, but not very worthwhile, imo. Not much athleticism needed in the milliseconds it takes to stand around and read a play, be it pass or run, just vision. I think, in light of Bort's comment "It's only when he's playing zone coverage and trying to stop a pass. As soon as his action changes to chase down a run play, it no longer applies." that it's active until the receiver is caught and contact is made. It's active on a pass play until a stop is attempted. It becomes inactive on a run play as soon as the SS *realizes* it's a run. Man, I hope this is the case.

I doubt it. We know, for example, from other Bort statements that as soon as a pass is caught, the play is considered a Run for blocking tactics purposes. I highly suspect that the same would be true for Zone Specialist.

For that matter, I've wondered if ZS still applies once a DB picks up a man in his zone and sticks with him, especially since they'll stick with the receiver after they've left the zone. I worry that this situation also is no longer considered "zone" for the purpose of ZS.