My wr is a pr/kr and special teamer +15 looks like a nerf waiting to happen... So that's where I'm putting mine.
PsychoMan
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Originally posted by hoyaboy1
Not confident that ball hawk will be that good on offense. If catching was getting upped, sure - but by the time the WR sees the ball I'm not sure a bonus to speed and agility will matter much.
If the throw is good, why would it matter? The ball will still arrive at the same time and the defender will have the same opportunity to make a play. On a bad throw I suppose it could help, but there aren't that many bad throws.
Sure Hands seems best.
I hear ya here about ball hawk. I think it's still very good for a WR, but MUCH better for all LBs and DBs, especially safeties.
Not confident that ball hawk will be that good on offense. If catching was getting upped, sure - but by the time the WR sees the ball I'm not sure a bonus to speed and agility will matter much.
If the throw is good, why would it matter? The ball will still arrive at the same time and the defender will have the same opportunity to make a play. On a bad throw I suppose it could help, but there aren't that many bad throws.
Sure Hands seems best.
I hear ya here about ball hawk. I think it's still very good for a WR, but MUCH better for all LBs and DBs, especially safeties.
PsychoMan
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Have people had any success with the elusive SAs on WRs such as HF, Juke or Spin? Now that quick feet helps the triggering of spin, that VA seems quite a bit better. I'm thinking of pumping this VA for my speedster WR who focuses on those SAs, but I'm just not sure how to improve his build to trigger those more anyway. It seems like this type of WR needs speed, agility, catching, carrying, vision, jumping and confidence. Way too many attributes.
Jediknight120
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So it looks like Sure Hands, or Ball Hawk, and Ball Hawk looks like it'd be much better for the defense.
obselete1
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I have a poss. wr build, so I am thinking of going poss rec. at full 15 fist and then YAC attack full 15 second and then maybe working on ball hawk. What you think?
Bacon Nator
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But now is it worth it to boost my lvl 22 WR to 25 on day 0 to get the extra vet points now that the attribute VA's are crap?
RobertRJS
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Originally posted by hoyaboy1
Not confident that ball hawk will be that good on offense. If catching was getting upped, sure - but by the time the WR sees the ball I'm not sure a bonus to speed and agility will matter much.
If the throw is good, why would it matter? The ball will still arrive at the same time and the defender will have the same opportunity to make a play. On a bad throw I suppose it could help, but there aren't that many bad throws.
Sure Hands seems best.
Not really. Take my guy from last season.
114 catches, 7 drops. so 7 out of 121 'grabs' were drops or roughly 6%.
So with sure hands maxed, that gives me a 75% re-roll chance on those 6%. In other words, 94% caught, 1.5% dropped, 4.5% rolled again. Among that second roll 94% are caught, so the breakdown is like this:
98% caught, 2% dropped roughly speaking. Or, out of those 121 I'd end up catching 118-119 and dropping 2-3.
Are 15 VAs worth an extra 4-5 catches out of 120? One extra catch every 4 games? If my guy gets targeted a lot less and catches say 85, then we're looking at 2-3 catches.
15 VAs for an extra 3 catches? No thanks. I think I'd rather spend it on something else that will get me more open and catch more that way.
Not confident that ball hawk will be that good on offense. If catching was getting upped, sure - but by the time the WR sees the ball I'm not sure a bonus to speed and agility will matter much.
If the throw is good, why would it matter? The ball will still arrive at the same time and the defender will have the same opportunity to make a play. On a bad throw I suppose it could help, but there aren't that many bad throws.
Sure Hands seems best.
Not really. Take my guy from last season.
114 catches, 7 drops. so 7 out of 121 'grabs' were drops or roughly 6%.
So with sure hands maxed, that gives me a 75% re-roll chance on those 6%. In other words, 94% caught, 1.5% dropped, 4.5% rolled again. Among that second roll 94% are caught, so the breakdown is like this:
98% caught, 2% dropped roughly speaking. Or, out of those 121 I'd end up catching 118-119 and dropping 2-3.
Are 15 VAs worth an extra 4-5 catches out of 120? One extra catch every 4 games? If my guy gets targeted a lot less and catches say 85, then we're looking at 2-3 catches.
15 VAs for an extra 3 catches? No thanks. I think I'd rather spend it on something else that will get me more open and catch more that way.
zomgmike
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Originally posted by RobertRJS
Originally posted by hoyaboy1
Not confident that ball hawk will be that good on offense. If catching was getting upped, sure - but by the time the WR sees the ball I'm not sure a bonus to speed and agility will matter much.
If the throw is good, why would it matter? The ball will still arrive at the same time and the defender will have the same opportunity to make a play. On a bad throw I suppose it could help, but there aren't that many bad throws.
Sure Hands seems best.
Not really. Take my guy from last season.
114 catches, 7 drops. so 7 out of 121 'grabs' were drops or roughly 6%.
So with sure hands maxed, that gives me a 75% re-roll chance on those 6%. In other words, 94% caught, 1.5% dropped, 4.5% rolled again. Among that second roll 94% are caught, so the breakdown is like this:
98% caught, 2% dropped roughly speaking. Or, out of those 121 I'd end up catching 118-119 and dropping 2-3.
Are 15 VAs worth an extra 4-5 catches out of 120? One extra catch every 4 games? If my guy gets targeted a lot less and catches say 85, then we're looking at 2-3 catches.
15 VAs for an extra 3 catches? No thanks. I think I'd rather spend it on something else that will get me more open and catch more that way.
if the VA you are referring to is ball hawk, it wont help you get open, it will only help you track down the ball better. The only way it will help you get open is if it is overthrown into open territory, ball hawk kicks in, and you hunt it down.
You wont have every year like you did last. It all comes down to luck. For a pure speed receiver with mediocre catching, sure hands is the way to go. All they need is 50 catching and they can pump it up for rerolls for the catch. But for a possession receiver, sure hands might not be the way to go, since they nearly never drop balls.
Originally posted by hoyaboy1
Not confident that ball hawk will be that good on offense. If catching was getting upped, sure - but by the time the WR sees the ball I'm not sure a bonus to speed and agility will matter much.
If the throw is good, why would it matter? The ball will still arrive at the same time and the defender will have the same opportunity to make a play. On a bad throw I suppose it could help, but there aren't that many bad throws.
Sure Hands seems best.
Not really. Take my guy from last season.
114 catches, 7 drops. so 7 out of 121 'grabs' were drops or roughly 6%.
So with sure hands maxed, that gives me a 75% re-roll chance on those 6%. In other words, 94% caught, 1.5% dropped, 4.5% rolled again. Among that second roll 94% are caught, so the breakdown is like this:
98% caught, 2% dropped roughly speaking. Or, out of those 121 I'd end up catching 118-119 and dropping 2-3.
Are 15 VAs worth an extra 4-5 catches out of 120? One extra catch every 4 games? If my guy gets targeted a lot less and catches say 85, then we're looking at 2-3 catches.
15 VAs for an extra 3 catches? No thanks. I think I'd rather spend it on something else that will get me more open and catch more that way.
if the VA you are referring to is ball hawk, it wont help you get open, it will only help you track down the ball better. The only way it will help you get open is if it is overthrown into open territory, ball hawk kicks in, and you hunt it down.
You wont have every year like you did last. It all comes down to luck. For a pure speed receiver with mediocre catching, sure hands is the way to go. All they need is 50 catching and they can pump it up for rerolls for the catch. But for a possession receiver, sure hands might not be the way to go, since they nearly never drop balls.
RobertRJS
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Originally posted by zomgmike
if the VA you are referring to is ball hawk, it wont help you get open, it will only help you track down the ball better. The only way it will help you get open is if it is overthrown into open territory, ball hawk kicks in, and you hunt it down.
You wont have every year like you did last. It all comes down to luck. For a pure speed receiver with mediocre catching, sure hands is the way to go. All they need is 50 catching and they can pump it up for rerolls for the catch. But for a possession receiver, sure hands might not be the way to go, since they nearly never drop balls.
Well, I never said ball hawk. Underdog and Awe Inspiring could be the ones cuz of the vision penalty. Maybe YAC, though that one doesn't get you open. Still attributes.
I'm just not buying sure hands. You're right, I won't always have a year like last year. But if you tone down the # of targets, we're talking about less drops. I'm not worried about drops at all, tbh. Now, if it worked on PD rolls, then yes, sure hands would so be worth it.
Edit: but if you're a real pure speedster that does drop quite a bit, maybe it is the way to go. It definitely is useless in my build though.
if the VA you are referring to is ball hawk, it wont help you get open, it will only help you track down the ball better. The only way it will help you get open is if it is overthrown into open territory, ball hawk kicks in, and you hunt it down.
You wont have every year like you did last. It all comes down to luck. For a pure speed receiver with mediocre catching, sure hands is the way to go. All they need is 50 catching and they can pump it up for rerolls for the catch. But for a possession receiver, sure hands might not be the way to go, since they nearly never drop balls.
Well, I never said ball hawk. Underdog and Awe Inspiring could be the ones cuz of the vision penalty. Maybe YAC, though that one doesn't get you open. Still attributes.
I'm just not buying sure hands. You're right, I won't always have a year like last year. But if you tone down the # of targets, we're talking about less drops. I'm not worried about drops at all, tbh. Now, if it worked on PD rolls, then yes, sure hands would so be worth it.
Edit: but if you're a real pure speedster that does drop quite a bit, maybe it is the way to go. It definitely is useless in my build though.
Last edited Apr 16, 2009 19:56:29
RobertRJS
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Originally posted by kingofgod
I think underdog will be good if used right
what if you max out both underdog and awe inspiring.
3 out of every 4 routes the CB covering you in man will take a 20% vision hit. interesting, eh?
I think underdog will be good if used right
what if you max out both underdog and awe inspiring.
3 out of every 4 routes the CB covering you in man will take a 20% vision hit. interesting, eh?
JD Cuda
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Originally posted by RobertRJS
Originally posted by kingofgod
I think underdog will be good if used right
what if you max out both underdog and awe inspiring.
3 out of every 4 routes the CB covering you in man will take a 20% vision hit. interesting, eh?
Underdog only helps when you're less famous than the defender.
Awe Inspiring only helps when you're more famous than the defender.
So... max 45% bonus against some defenders and max 45% against others, but those 2 shouldn't be stackable together.
Originally posted by kingofgod
I think underdog will be good if used right
what if you max out both underdog and awe inspiring.
3 out of every 4 routes the CB covering you in man will take a 20% vision hit. interesting, eh?
Underdog only helps when you're less famous than the defender.
Awe Inspiring only helps when you're more famous than the defender.
So... max 45% bonus against some defenders and max 45% against others, but those 2 shouldn't be stackable together.
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