Warrior General Games

lmfao

CBs don't just cover you know

They need to be able to contain outside runs.

On top of that, Strength helps to force fumbles if the WR caught the ball, which will happen no matter how damn good you are.

nooo it wont. I barely ever see CBs force fumbles on decent WRs.

Originally posted by mmuhr
nooo it wont. I barely ever see CBs force fumbles on decent WRs.

this

Kayoh:

LB's/D Line/Safeties = 9 players to stop the run

Originally posted by Kayoh
lmfao

CBs don't just cover you know

They need to be able to contain outside runs.

On top of that, Strength helps to force fumbles if the WR caught the ball, which will happen no matter how damn good you are.

Honestly, when you're on wrap-up tackling your agility and vision help a ton with tackles, and the benefits of making what ends up being a fairly large investment in tackling will ed up being one or two tackles a year for a good CB. Honestly, how many tackles does a shutdown CB even have the opportunity to make? If you're playing against equal competition, maybe two or three per game . . .

Originally posted by SunshineMan89
Originally posted by Kayoh

lmfao

CBs don't just cover you know

They need to be able to contain outside runs.

On top of that, Strength helps to force fumbles if the WR caught the ball, which will happen no matter how damn good you are.

Honestly, when you're on wrap-up tackling your agility and vision help a ton with tackles, and the benefits of making what ends up being a fairly large investment in tackling will ed up being one or two tackles a year for a good CB. Honestly, how many tackles does a shutdown CB even have the opportunity to make? If you're playing against equal competition, maybe two or three per game . . .

This is part of the mentality that allowed screens and HB passes to be so effective.

Additionally, when your CB plays on special teams, the tackle chance goes up.

CBs shouldn't play much on special teams IMO. they have one of the more tiring jobs. Chasing those damn WRs every play. My CB has peaked his tackling at 30, having it be around 25 for the past two seasons. He missed 3 tackles last season in a powerHB heavy AAA league where he was usually outleveled by 5-10 levels. suck on that.

Originally posted by mmuhr
suck on that.

You're tired of debating without vulgarity, it seems.
Between this and your f-bomb response in the other thread, that's the only logical explanation.

would you like to respond to the actual argument I made and not act like "suck on that" was all I said. It was a joke. sorry you couldnt handle it.

Originally posted by LionsLover
I understand strength isn't the most important attribute for CBs, I get it. But what is with players who don't even touch strength? I ask all my players to at least softcap strength. It helps bring down those fat-ass powerbacks. But I'm not even saying you have to spend SPs on it. Just train it up to something semi-decent. There is no reason a 50+ defensive player should not have at least 40 strength. It's inexcusable.

40 strength is a waste for a CB, 30 is fine but 40 is wasting time on a attribute, the primary goal is to be able to cover any type of WR from the extreme burners to the high jumping possession types, there is too much to worry about with that to pump up strength which will get run over by a powerback anyway.

Originally posted by mmuhr
would you like to respond to the actual argument I made and not act like "suck on that" was all I said. It was a joke. sorry you couldnt handle it.

Actual argument: CB's should not play on special teams.
My counter: You may be right. However, I'm going to go with the guy who's got a better record than the teams you GM and who actually gets his team in the Top 25 rankings each season. (Yes, I just referenced those god-awful rankings. O_o.) However, my CB's usually finish with energy in the high 60's or low 70's, and we don't give up comebacks based on giving up long passes.

Actual argument: Your CB missed 3 tackles in a AAA league.
My counter: Thank you for coming at me with Africa AAA. My two corners missed 3 tackles combined in SA Pro...

Actual argument: Tackling soft-capped is a wasted investment. (not from your last post, but still an argument nevertheless).
My counter: I agree that it is for most of the people posting in this topic. I think if you cap your level 25-40 CB's tackling, you're probably lacking in other areas. But, for well built CB's around level 50, it is not unheard of to have 3-4 attributes 68-capped. When you get that far, it becomes more about what do I work on next--catching, tackling, or confidence?

I have not seen a good argument for any of these three, so I chose tackling mostly because of the outside running I faced in SA Pro and the fact that I played ST too. YMMV, but I would like to see examples where catching or confidence seemed to be the difference-maker in a CB. Then I might have to rethink my training time on tackling.

I just don't get how people with level 25-40 CB's are trashing the attribute. I think they haven't had the time to look at the big picture.

thankyou for the mature response. I like to debate, but also trashtalk. Sometimes my trashtalk leeks into my debating.

Your GM argument is pretty pointless considering I GM 3 teams, two of which have never played a game and the third I just started GMing for this offseason.

Dont dis on africa AAA#1. Its an amazing AAAleague. Who cares that you missed 3 tackles in pro. the point is I only missed 3 in a powerback heavy, high level league with little tackling, while being outleveled anywhere from 5-10 levels in every single game. Your CBs levels matched the level of competition and only missed one or two less than me.

cap tackling late in a career??? I would rather cap catching, strength, jumping, confidence alllll before tackling. If you want to see proof of why catching is more important look at the thread titled catching>jumping. In fact, I think catching might be good to bring to 60.

I cant imagine a point in any CBs career when its no longer worth it to spend SPs anywhere else and you must resort to tackling. It is just never necessary as it doesnt really do much. I have it at 30 I missed 3 tackles. You have it at 50(or above??) and missed 1. Whooooopdiedoo! Where those SPs spent worth those 2 extra tackles?

to "win" this argument it seems you have to convince us either that
A) those SPs were worth those 2 extra tackles or that
B) capping tackling will somehow help us with pass defense
or C) there is a point in a CBs career where it is dumb to spend points ANYWHERE else besides tackling

Seems like a hard task.

No corner should ever dump points into tackling.Big Waste. No matter if you are level 4 or 400. It's not worth it, but to train it.

Originally posted by mmuhr
to "win" this argument it seems you have to convince us either that
A) those SPs were worth those 2 extra tackles or that
B) capping tackling will somehow help us with pass defense
or C) there is a point in a CBs career where it is dumb to spend points ANYWHERE else besides tackling

Seems like a hard task.

Funny. In my last post, I said "When you get that far, it becomes more about what do I work on next--catching, tackling, or confidence? I have not seen a good argument for any of these three, so I chose tackling mostly because of the outside running I faced in SA Pro and the fact that I played ST too. YMMV, but I would like to see examples where catching or confidence seemed to be the difference-maker in a CB. Then I might have to rethink my training time on tackling."

I'm saying that the only way to convince me is to show me examples where catching/confidence seemed to improve the CB. So, now you're telling me that the only way I can convince you is to show that tackling is best...

Originally posted by
cap tackling late in a career??? I would rather cap catching, strength, jumping, confidence alllll before tackling. If you want to see proof of why catching is more important look at the thread titled catching>jumping. In fact, I think catching might be good to bring to 60.
Strength is capped. Jumping is over 60. That just leaves catching and confidence, which are being trained now that tackling is capped...

You can make the case that catching/confidence is more important, but as I said before, I have not seen the evidence. The thread that we're talking about does nothing for me. It's a bunch of low-level CB's.

Let me go back to the first quote.
Originally posted by mmuhr
to "win" this argument it seems you have to convince us either that
A) those SPs were worth those 2 extra tackles or that
B) capping tackling will somehow help us with pass defense
or C) there is a point in a CBs career where it is dumb to spend points ANYWHERE else besides tackling

Seems like a hard task.

A) Tackling not only helps you make tackles, it gives you a bigger tackling radius, meaning you're able to attempt more tackles. I think having the opportunity to make more tackles while also missing less tackles is a nice boost.
B) My crappy scouting bar argument, but it's an argument nevertheless: tackling makes the pass defense bar go up. Would Bort say it helps your pass defense if it doesn't?
C) It's all a matter of priority. Some guys are going to want to take spd/agi/vis from 68-74. Others will want jumping from 60-68. Others will take SV or SC from 7-10. And, yes, some may take catching from 48-60 (although I still haven't seen anything that makes me want to do anything more than train catching. You'll have to break it down for me). After the basics for CB, as with most positions, the individuality starts to come in.

I think my argument would be that unless you have extremely high SAs already, the SPs could be better spent there while training tackling.