Warrior General Games

EDIT: level 34 (now)

Vision: 61
Speed: 81
Agility: 78
Juke: 7
HF: 4
QC: 5
39 carrying
21 strength (ahhhh)

this is against a playoff team that we scrimmed at the end of last season:
http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=467140&pbp_id=19331435
^^ only 2.5 yards, but the MLB shoestringed me. But you can see the speed to the hole.
http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=467140&pbp_id=19331813
^^ juked LB, still got 3 yards

Against a lesser team, but some nice running, you can see vision working here:
http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=398989&pbp_id=12178980
http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=398989&pbp_id=12185799
^^ looks more like patience to me

THis is where vision changed the play completely. Saw the SS in pursuit on the sweep, so he cuts it inside (close game):
http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=398982&pbp_id=5634457

KICK RETURNS...vision helped here. Even I didn't see this hole watching the play:
http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=398992&pbp_id=14960206
http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=398992&pbp_id=14955886
Same game for both, against a good team and was a close game.

For the above plays, i was running on 99, except for the first 2 plays. I was at 70 that game. I played on super elusive and i had 6 yard TFLs in one game.

I think to run on super elusive SUCCESSFULLY (like a true elusive back) you need to get your vision 3rd capped....I will let you know how that works.

Also, the plays your OC picks for your Hb has A LOT to do with the succes of your back. The best plays for my elusive back were the Weak i slam to the left and the single back HB slam and OT plays. Pro set sweep worked good also.

--Dan

Originally posted by cptafw163
For the above plays, i was running on 99, except for the first 2 plays. I was at 70 that game. I played on super elusive and i had 6 yard TFLs in one game.

I think to run on super elusive SUCCESSFULLY (like a true elusive back) you need to get your vision 3rd capped....I will let you know how that works.

Also, the plays your OC picks for your Hb has A LOT to do with the succes of your back. The best plays for my elusive back were the Weak i slam to the left and the single back HB slam and OT plays. Pro set sweep worked good also.

--Dan

http://goallineblitz.com/game/player.pl?player_id=807550

My player here has these stats (including VAs and EQ):

Speed: 101
Agility: 86
Vision: 45
Strength: 51
Carrying: 50
3 QC
1 HF
1 FS
1 Juke
4 Spin (AEQ)

And this season he ran on super-elusive all the time and had his best season by far. Including all play-offs and regular season games he was only tackled for a loss 3 times in total. I don't think vision is needed much past the first-cap to be successful on super-elusive.

I wouldn't say 4.2 YPC is successful in an A league, but its nothing to sneeze at. I am actually embarrassed by my 5.2 YPC this past season, when i had 7.3 the season before, and 6.9 the season before that.

Originally posted by cptafw163
I wouldn't say 4.2 YPC is successful in an A league, but its nothing to sneeze at. I am actually embarrassed by my 5.2 YPC this past season, when i had 7.3 the season before, and 6.9 the season before that.

That was a 4.2 average in the play-offs. I got a 10.4 average in the regular season, 2,757 yards and 62 TDs rushing.

Damn, don't people ever remember to click on the regular season tab? o_O

ah, forgot that, my bad. better than my playoff YPC. Gotta love those CPU games!!! I just checked your schedule...how many slowbuild/ cpu teams are in that league? Thats a lot of 100+ point games. Super elusive owns slowbuild/cpu teams.

Originally posted by cptafw163
ah, forgot that, my bad. better than my playoff YPC. Gotta love those CPU games!!! I just checked your schedule...how many slowbuild/ cpu teams are in that league? Thats a lot of 100+ point games. Super elusive owns slowbuild/cpu teams.

I don't know off the top of my head how many slowbuilders/CPUs there were but I would hazard a guess not as many as you think. We were one of the top 2 teams in that conference and us and the Belgian Beers (the #1 team) were light-years ahead of any of the other teams. I mean, we beat the 3rd place team 69-13 in the second round of the playoffs! And since I got a much better play-off average than you wouldn't you say that means something? The game against the Belgian Beers in Week 10 of the regular season was the only time my average was below 5 in the regular season and I only got 3 carries in that game for some reason.

I am not saying that you have a bad HB, he is obviously very good.

But you can agree that OCs help HB stats if they choose the right plays for that HB. i am an OC and i have 2 backs on my team...one is not a very good build for a true HB because he is also a receiving HB, but he still got a high YPC average this season because of play selection.

I am thinkming that your teams' OC is a tad better than the OC of the team my HB is on. That can make a big difference. Plus, we were a 7 seed team playing the 2 seed in the first round of the playoffs...so i think its safe to say that your team might be least a "cunt hair" better than the team i am on.

Now, this is not a callout, but i posted "video" of my back reading the defense and making cuts. Post where low vision has helped do that. I am guessing that most of your yardage had come from BIG gains on straight line runs. Nothing bad with that...but in terms of true elusive, and doing what elusive backs do (make something out of a seemingly broken play) i think my back is as good or better than yours. i would love to see some gamefilm of your back in a close game, and a not so close game. That way its a good cross section of data.

I also would LOVE to see if your back does the same cuts and waits for the holes to open like my back did. That would prove that my vision HB experiment was a fluke. THAT'S why i post these plays AND my freakin build. i am just trying to contribute and i want to see if my build theiry holds up to the players with more conventional builds. i want to know if my build works better than the cookie cutters. So far every time I ask for someone to show better gamefilm of cuts and hole patience, no one has delivered.

if i get proven wrong...it means more FP for me because i will retire my HB.

--Dan

Originally posted by cptafw163
I am guessing that most of your yardage had come from BIG gains on straight line runs. Nothing bad with that...but in terms of true elusive, and doing what elusive backs do (make something out of a seemingly broken play) i think my back is as good or better than yours.

elusives should dance, sure, but if they can break away they should....

Here you are cpat, some film!

I have looked at film from the 3 closest games where I have a large amount of runs (so this does not include our loss to the Beers in Week 10 where I got 3 carries). I have looked at film from our 3rd round play-off loss to the Beers (31-9), 2nd round play-off win over the Broncos (69-13) and regular season win over the Broncos (49-34). Also, a good point to remember is that I am running on 100, full-on Super Elusive, every play, every game

3rd-round playoff loss to Beers:

http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=472485&pbp_id=18788598
Simple straight ahead run, notices the hole behind the RG where the ROLB has been flattened and the DT is being taken out of the play, so he cuts sharply through the hole, avoiding the pile-up of 4 defenders in the middle.

http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=472485&pbp_id=18788823
Looks to go outside, but stops, waits and shoots through the hole behind the RT and RG where the two defenders are on the butts.

http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=472485&pbp_id=18784426
Doesn't go outside, and throws about 3 cuts together to work his way through the middle. The WR on the outside didn't pick up the CB on a block and this may have contributed to him going inside, idk, he might even have been better hopping outside and hoping the WR picks up the block

2nd round play-off win over the Broncos:

http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=470690&pbp_id=17938743
Is this the play where he is meant to go between TE and T? If so, good decision to bounce outside, if not and he was meant to go outside then it's a good play anyway. I just like the sick move he puts on the SS (even though he does make the tackle).

http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=470690&pbp_id=17936778
Big lateral movement waiting for the hole. Doesn't get a massive hole but he manages solid yardage by waiting instead of plowing straight into a pile.

Week 10 win over the Broncos:

http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=422803&pbp_id=9716166
I think this might be what you were referring to when you said 'BIG straight line runs'? Even so, he puts his foot down and shoots round the corner, leaving the LOLB for dead even though he doesn't even let the FB get there to block him.

http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=422803&pbp_id=9717015
Straight ahead run, but waits for a hole instead of plowing into a pile. Meets SS in the hole and puts a move on him to slip past.

http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=422803&pbp_id=9721288
Great patience in the hole waiting for his blockers to go to work before shooting out to daylight.

Also, here are some good runs against the #5 team in the conference:

http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=422834&pbp_id=12518175
Great cut to shift the run from outside right to inside between the C and RG. Change of direction or what?

http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=422834&pbp_id=12519145
Waits for the hole and shows good strength to break two tackles and get the TD.

Against the #4 team:

http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=422894&pbp_id=13467102
Straight ahead rush, but waits and moves laterally before picking the hole and then cutting sharply to his left (so, right ) to avoid the LB and pick up the block from the WR.

I think those replays show that Super Elusive does work on a HB with 'low' vision (50) and that sharp cuts, patience and the ability to wait and pick holes can be done with low vision. Though, I will say that a big part of the success of the back was that he had a great O-Line in front of him that allowed him to play on Super-Elusive. Having said that, before Super Elusive was around, he managed 2,000+ yards on an 8 seed team in season 6, but didn't score nearly as many TDs and his average was lower.

All in all, I think the keys to running on Super-Elusive are high speed/agility (he was running with roughly 100 speed/85 agility with EQ and VAs) and a good line that will enable you to be patient and wait for holes and move laterally.

Nice game film. Lots of data to pull from. From what it seems to me, your back will act more like an elusive/patient runner until he breaks the LOS. After that its more of a speed burst and looking for a straight line, which is very good decision making in my opinion. Although that is inconsistent with what a lot of people have been saying about 50 vision.

I have never seen a back with 50 vision only make the behind the LOS read and then keep going forward after the LOS. Meaning, there is ussually a pause or a fake move tried when the HB gets to the LB area. Your back shows that 50 vision is good enough to make that first read (which makes the best of a seemingly broken play), and not get caught up in decision making once crossing the LOS. YOur back looks like he commits to the open hole faster than most other elusives. Is your CONF capped?

My next theory is that the inconsistency with TFLs and decent gains has to do with the O-line, like you said. have noticed that 99/SE makes for a better runner, but if the LBs get penetration it is a coin toss. With that being said, if you are an elusive HB on a team that does not have the best O-line...you might want to change slider bar tactics OR even have the OC have a powerback as the feature runner for that game.

Good stuff. It's a lot better when someone provides gamefilm to back up opinions. It actually helps the others whpo are here trying to get more info.

Thanks!!

--Dan

Thanks. Yeah, I do like the way he puts the jets on when he gets to a hole, maybe I have found a good medium for vision level for my HB making behind the LOS reads and then not trying to fake everyone who comes within 5 metres? Though there are times when I think he could have made a better decision by going outside when he went inside or vice versa, for the most part he makes the right decision and gets the yards. For the record, his confidence is at 34.

And yes, I am fully behind the theory that for Super Elusive to work you need atleast an above-average line that can hold its own. Super Elusive is based on the theory of lateral movement to find the best hole rather than just plowing forward and hoping for the best. Therefore if your line is being constantly penetrated and LBs/D-Liners are consistently getting in the back-field it will hurt you a lot as you won't have the time to move sideways and pick your hole. Saying that though, I have seen him on a couple of runs where he has juked a LB out of his shoes in the back-field by cutting sharply to one side or the other, though more often than not if you have constant pressure in the back-field its game over.

Spike, are you from canada? You spelled meters...metres. My wife is canadian, and i always "correct" her spelling.

Originally posted by cptafw163
Spike, are you from canada? You spelled meters...metres. My wife is canadian, and i always "correct" her spelling.

Lol, no, I'm from England! I get that a lot from people here lol

Isn't an internet forum great!