Warrior General Games

Originally posted by LostPeon
Originally posted by caesarrodneybengal

stockpiling SPs

Every level, you get an automatic bonus to your attributes of 2 skill points spread evenly among your major attributes and 1 among your minor. By capping an attribute as early as possible, these automatic increases become worth much more (even more so by taking your attribute to higher caps).

For example:
Kicker A is level 10 and has never applied any skill points. He is gaining +1 to kicking every level.

Kicker B is level 10 and has capped kicking by level 3, second capped kicking by level 8, and is continuing to invest skill points in kicking. He is still getting that +1 to kicking every level, but for him that +1 is worth more since it now takes 3 skill points to raise kicking otherwise. That automatic level increase is worth 3x what it is for kicker A.

It's not anywhere near as simple as that because you aren't including the possibility that kicker A is getting a significant amount more out of training the kicking attribute. K and P get a bigger benefit to level ups because of the fewer number of primary attributes, but it still isn't as straight forward as your example.

Originally posted by djhoffman99
Originally posted by LostPeon

Originally posted by caesarrodneybengal


stockpiling SPs

Every level, you get an automatic bonus to your attributes of 2 skill points spread evenly among your major attributes and 1 among your minor. By capping an attribute as early as possible, these automatic increases become worth much more (even more so by taking your attribute to higher caps).

For example:
Kicker A is level 10 and has never applied any skill points. He is gaining +1 to kicking every level.

Kicker B is level 10 and has capped kicking by level 3, second capped kicking by level 8, and is continuing to invest skill points in kicking. He is still getting that +1 to kicking every level, but for him that +1 is worth more since it now takes 3 skill points to raise kicking otherwise. That automatic level increase is worth 3x what it is for kicker A.

It's not anywhere near as simple as that because you aren't including the possibility that kicker A is getting a significant amount more out of training the kicking attribute. K and P get a bigger benefit to level ups because of the fewer number of primary attributes, but it still isn't as straight forward as your example.

This counter-example is basically irrelevant for positions that get such high gains. The value is in the caps, not training. Training will make up some ground, but maybe 10% of what he lost

Originally posted by Octowned
Originally posted by djhoffman99

Originally posted by LostPeon


Originally posted by caesarrodneybengal



stockpiling SPs

Every level, you get an automatic bonus to your attributes of 2 skill points spread evenly among your major attributes and 1 among your minor. By capping an attribute as early as possible, these automatic increases become worth much more (even more so by taking your attribute to higher caps).

For example:
Kicker A is level 10 and has never applied any skill points. He is gaining +1 to kicking every level.

Kicker B is level 10 and has capped kicking by level 3, second capped kicking by level 8, and is continuing to invest skill points in kicking. He is still getting that +1 to kicking every level, but for him that +1 is worth more since it now takes 3 skill points to raise kicking otherwise. That automatic level increase is worth 3x what it is for kicker A.

It's not anywhere near as simple as that because you aren't including the possibility that kicker A is getting a significant amount more out of training the kicking attribute. K and P get a bigger benefit to level ups because of the fewer number of primary attributes, but it still isn't as straight forward as your example.

This counter-example is basically irrelevant for positions that get such high gains. The value is in the caps, not training. Training will make up some ground, but maybe 10% of what he lost

My point was, and is, he completely left out the main reason you would even consider stockpiling SPs which makes it an incomplete argument irrespective of the final conclusion. To really answer the original question posed, one would have to lay out that exact case and not guess at the training contribution, which is what you did, or completely ignore it, which is what LostPeon did.

Training is essentially irrelevant.

Assuming both kickers are training consistently, the one stockpiling skill points is still worse off. So he trains kicking for a while longer? So what? The other kicker trained kicking, then moved on to confidence, then moved on to agility or vision or strength or whatever else. This allows the kicker that wisely invests his skill points to cap more attributes earlier and thus further increases the value of the natural level gains while kicker A is still losing in all respects.

Originally posted by LostPeon
Training is essentially irrelevant.

Assuming both kickers are training consistently, the one stockpiling skill points is still worse off. So he trains kicking for a while longer? So what? The other kicker trained kicking, then moved on to confidence, then moved on to agility or vision or strength or whatever else. This allows the kicker that wisely invests his skill points to cap more attributes earlier and thus further increases the value of the natural level gains while kicker A is still losing in all respects.

However, the kicker who stockpiled has more REMAINING training options, so down the road, once the normal builder is out of good training spots, the stockpiler will start to re-gain his advantage.

Anyway, who cares if I'm guessing or not about 10%. The fact remains stockpiling for THAT LONG is an awful decision.

Decision criteria: Can you train more value in X days than you get in level gains in X days?

For a kicker, you're leveling every 4-5 days. Can you train 1 SP in 4-5 days? On normal, yes, up to ~33 kicking on the charts. On intense, no, after ~20 in kicking.

This will curb as leveling slows, but the opportunity cost will continue to rise, as the leveling value starts to double.. triple.. quadruple.. etc., as potential caps could have been reached.

Originally posted by Octowned


Decision criteria: Can you train more value in X days than you get in level gains in X days?



This is the key and it's what these guys who wait 20 levels to spend SP seem to miss. It seems like these same silly arguments are made over and over. It's why I gave up on posting in the FAQ forum about slowbuilding. I wish everyone would use the Player Builder to test this type of stuff before trying it

I don't tell people general slowbuild strategies now, either, but rather bring it up in specific discussions like this one.

The optimal build strategy is basically as you quoted me above. There MIGHT be value in training a bit longer (train for 0.90 whereas levels get you 1.00, but you "save training time" for a future thing), etc., but I basically follow that decision rule above.

--

People make mistakes both ways, actually. I have a slowbuild rushing QB... they get 0.2 speed/agility per level! Despite having 50 SP saved up, no point in me capping for a looooong time; I will likely train these all the way to 33, cap, and continue to train them at 48, disregarding my saved SP.

I just think it's funny when ppl rush to make their first cap super fast and don't realize it hurt them in rushing their stat up ASAP by capping it so quickly.

Originally posted by LostPeon
Originally posted by caesarrodneybengal

stockpiling SPs

Every level, you get an automatic bonus to your attributes of 2 skill points spread evenly among your major attributes and 1 among your minor. By capping an attribute as early as possible, these automatic increases become worth much more (even more so by taking your attribute to higher caps).

For example:
Kicker A is level 10 and has never applied any skill points. He is gaining +1 to kicking every level.

Kicker B is level 10 and has capped kicking by level 3, second capped kicking by level 8, and is continuing to invest skill points in kicking. He is still getting that +1 to kicking every level, but for him that +1 is worth more since it now takes 3 skill points to raise kicking otherwise. That automatic level increase is worth 3x what it is for kicker A.

ok i gotcha

i kinda thought that

wasn't sure

you should stockpile points until you have enough to cap the attribute then cap it once you stock piled enough points that way you can max out the training and the +1 value from capping. Is this correct?

Originally posted by Derek Damato
you should stockpile points until you have enough to cap the attribute then cap it once you stock piled enough points that way you can max out the training and the +1 value from capping. Is this correct?

Yes... I think. Your wording is confusing, but I think you're on the right track.