Warrior General Games

Originally posted by UnderDogs
Alternate Str and agility till they hit the 6:1 cap. then work speed up to about 70-73. Split equipment even in str and agility.


You are better off maxing one then going back for the other than alternating. Only exception is while you are training the second you will reach a point where capping the lower of the 2 is closer than hitting the next cap in the higher stat. This should happen somewhere around the 4:1 cap IIRC.

Originally posted by nottom
Originally posted by UnderDogs

Alternate Str and agility till they hit the 6:1 cap. then work speed up to about 70-73. Split equipment even in str and agility.


You are better off maxing one then going back for the other than alternating.




that's not really true. That's assuming that you want to spend the majority of a player's career pumping two attributes up as high as possible. I'd rather get them up to 68 or 73 or whatever and then maybe drop in one last points worth of SP to push over a cap, doing most of the gaining from level bonuses.

Originally posted by Darren McFadden
Originally posted by nottom

Originally posted by UnderDogs


Alternate Str and agility till they hit the 6:1 cap. then work speed up to about 70-73. Split equipment even in str and agility.


You are better off maxing one then going back for the other than alternating.




that's not really true. That's assuming that you want to spend the majority of a player's career pumping two attributes up as high as possible. I'd rather get them up to 68 or 73 or whatever and then maybe drop in one last points worth of SP to push over a cap, doing most of the gaining from level bonuses.

All I'm saying is that if you want to take both to 73 you are better off taking one there and then taking the other there rather than taking both to 60 then both to 68 then both to 73. If you are concerned by the fact that in the time it takes to get your second to 73 that your first will be up to 78 then stop the first at 68, either way bouncing between the 2 is less efficient than just doing one at a time.

It's not more efficient though. What do you mean by efficient? It's "efficient" to use the level gains to help you get there. It's inefficient to pump one attribute up, not get level gains, and then get the first attribute way higher than you needed/intended while also lacking the supporting attributes/SAs to get use out of it.

Originally posted by UnderDogs
Alternate Str and agility till they hit the 6:1 cap. then work speed up to about 70-73. Split equipment even in str and agility.

Work on nothing else.

Train everything else. Once you reach the targets, bring tackling to cap.

That's the slow build way I do it. imo

the hell do you need so much strength for?

Originally posted by Darren McFadden
It's not more efficient though. What do you mean by efficient? It's "efficient" to use the level gains to help you get there. It's inefficient to pump one attribute up, not get level gains, and then get the first attribute way higher than you needed/intended while also lacking the supporting attributes/SAs to get use out of it.

Efficient means that its the most effective way to reach a certain goal. My point is that if I build 2 guys where my goal is to have 80 strength and 80 agility (without equipment) and with one I alternate between capping strength and capping agility and on the other I take strength to some predetermined spot and then start working on agility. The later will reach the goal sooner or at least have an SP or 2 (or more) extra when they reach the goal. Obviously if I just kept pumping strength until it reached 80 and then started pumping agility, that would be going overboard in strength but it would make sense to take strength straight to around the 4th cap and then switch to agility and while I pump that up my strength will climb to 80 on its own. I'm still taking advantage of level gains, in fact I'm taking maximum advantage of them by not switching back and forth and slowing down the number of "extra" gains I get from hitting the caps ASAP.

There are a couple of reason for this. The most obvious is that the longer you assign SPs to Attribute#1 the long you can train attribute #2. The other less obvious reason is that builds are all about caps, who ever hits the most caps the soonest will get the most advantage from leveling. Because of the spacing of the caps, they are all pretty much the same distance from each other in terms of SPs. 48 - > 60 is 24 SPs, 60 - 68 is 24 SPs, 68 to 74 is 24 SPs, 74 - 78 is 20 SPs, etc

But because I keep getting greater and greater gains from reaching each additional cap, each cap gets progressively closer.

(Using a DE in this example since .5 is easier to do the math with than .66 )

If I have a DE with 25 in Spd/Agility and I take one to the first cap. So now hes 49/25 ... to get to 61 I need 24 SPs or to get agility to 49 I'll need 24 SPs. but I'll get a full SP worth for each level for strength while only .5 for agility. So after 4 levels (assuming no training gains) I'll have 20 SPs banked with 51/27 spd/agi so now I can take spd to the 61 cap but agi is 2 SPs short. So I double cap speed. OK 4 more levels pass. now Speed is at 63 and agility is at 29 so I can cap agility with my 20 SPs, or I can spend only 15 SPs to 3cap speed. OK I choose speed. and bank the 5 SPs to help towards my next cap. 3 levels later, I have 20 SPs again with 69.5 speed and 30.5 agility. So I can either spend 16 to 4cap speed or spend 18 to cap agility ... again I choose speed and this pretty much continues on like this for a while although by this point you are probably only looking to go 1 more cap anyway.

Obviously there might be situations where you would want to cap agility, certainly if you got a few points of training that would change things but on the other hand how often do you start with both major stats as high as 25 when you hit the first cap. Usually one will be lagging behind so the training only serves to close that initial gap.

redo your DE example except for switch to capping agility after speed is at the second cap...you will probably come out ahead because you'll be putting SP into agility when it's cheaper rather than letting it level on it's own. This is assuming you're not training it of course, if you are, the math is more complicated. But if you have an equal number of points gained in an attribute from autogains regardless of when you cap, I'd rather have those gains come at the higher cap level, because that means you've spent more SP earlier while the gains were higher, versus later when you get less of a return.

I look at it like there's a fixed number of points an attribute is going to go up, and the number of points from level gains is also fixed. therefore there is also a fixed number of points the attribute has to be raised by SP, however, what is NOT fixed, is how much SP it costs to get them.

this is assuming of course a fixed goal, ie, 80 total. if your goal is to simply get it as high as possible, then you probably want to put all SP there until you're unwilling to put any more in.

Originally posted by Darren McFadden
redo your DE example except for switch to capping agility after speed is at the second cap...you will probably come out ahead because you'll be putting SP into agility when it's cheaper rather than letting it level on it's own.

Except that it doesn't.

It all comes down to hitting caps and if I have the choice to hit the 5th speed cap or the 2nd agility cap or the 1st strength cap. They are all the same in terms of marginal SPs gained so it just comes down to how much you value that additional SPs. You could take this to the extreme and keep pumping the same attribute forever, but at some point the value of the additional points isn't worth as much as putting those elsewhere.

Originally posted by maz621
Originally posted by UnderDogs

Alternate Str and agility till they hit the 6:1 cap. then work speed up to about 70-73. Split equipment even in str and agility.

Work on nothing else.

Train everything else. Once you reach the targets, bring tackling to cap.

That's the slow build way I do it. imo

the hell do you need so much strength for?

I think people overreacted to increased pancakes by the OL against DTs. I still roll with all gear in agility personally.

Originally posted by nottom
Originally posted by Darren McFadden

redo your DE example except for switch to capping agility after speed is at the second cap...you will probably come out ahead because you'll be putting SP into agility when it's cheaper rather than letting it level on it's own.

Except that it doesn't.

It all comes down to hitting caps and if I have the choice to hit the 5th speed cap or the 2nd agility cap or the 1st strength cap. They are all the same in terms of marginal SPs gained so it just comes down to how much you value that additional SPs. You could take this to the extreme and keep pumping the same attribute forever, but at some point the value of the additional points isn't worth as much as putting those elsewhere.

it doesn't make any sense to compare the 2nd cap of one attribute to the 1st or 3rd of another. all that matters is the total SP spent to get to a given level (ie 80 in both speed and agility).

i suppose this is what baby jesus gave us the player creator for. but i'm too lazy to test.

Originally posted by maz621
Originally posted by UnderDogs

Alternate Str and agility till they hit the 6:1 cap. then work speed up to about 70-73. Split equipment even in str and agility.

Work on nothing else.

Train everything else. Once you reach the targets, bring tackling to cap.

That's the slow build way I do it. imo

the hell do you need so much strength for?

Extra strength is good for the guards built with 85 strength, 75 blocking, 85 agility. I don't agree with getting to 6:1 cap this way though. You can get both to 6:1 cap quicker by taking strength to 4:1 cap while training agility/speed, then taking agility to 6:1 cap.

I still like all equipment in agility, but it is good to have 80+ strength to go with that 120 agility and 70+ speed.

Originally posted by maz621


the hell do you need so much strength for?

http://goallineblitz.com/game/full_player_stats.pl?player_id=65662&playoffs=0

you really don't know? Or are you being a smart ass?

Originally posted by Darren McFadden


it doesn't make any sense to compare the 2nd cap of one attribute to the 1st or 3rd of another. all that matters is the total SP spent to get to a given level (ie 80 in both speed and agility).



except that from an SP perspective they are exactly the same

back to our DE example.

If he has speed at the 5:1 cap and agilty at the uncapped, he gets 2.5 + .5 = 3.0 SPs worht of points added to speed/agility on level up there on a level up

If he instead has Speed at the 4:1 cap and Agility at the 2:1 cap then he still gets 2.0 + 1.0 = 3 SPs

If they are both 3:1 capped, he stills gets 3 SPs.

They are only different because of the marginal utility of each additional point. For a while an SP is an SP but eventually additional SPs aren't as attractive as they would be somewhere else (for me this occurs somewhere in the 70s for a main stat, somewhere around the 3:1 cap for secondary type stats and for useless stats like throwing for a DT this would obviously be at 8 (I can get maximum training value in terms of SPs by training my 8s, but the extra SPs are worthless).

Originally posted by UnderDogs
Originally posted by maz621



the hell do you need so much strength for?

http://goallineblitz.com/game/full_player_stats.pl?player_id=65662&playoffs=0

you really don't know? Or are you being a smart ass?

i dont get why you posted that DT?