Warrior General Games

Originally posted by UnderDogs
Originally posted by medfest


The real question is if Bort didn't know vision actually worked ,why did he keep hinting(if not outright saying it) that vision was essential for a good defensive end build?


No the real question is, " how much do you need to make it work". Everyone knows Vision helps a Defensive lineman. But what extremes do you take it?

I think capped vision is all that is needed to get a consitent good jump at the snap.

With all the attribute VA's getting nerfed, JTS should be in just about every DE + DT's VA wishlist now.

Originally posted by britdevine316
JTS does work good.

With 51 vision and now 7 in JTS, look at my DE, also 7 in First Step

http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=472335&pbp_id=19046722

thats not just the snap
that is just plain first step

again i say
Jump the Snap DOESNT, i repeat, DOESNT make you jump the snap (in other words it DOESNT make you get off the line any faster than normal)
it only AIDS in getting a NORMAL snap (in other words it helps you avoid a slow get off). so if you get a NORMAL snap most of the time already it really doesnt help much

haha he said aids.

Originally posted by britdevine316

With all the attribute VA's getting nerfed, JTS should be in just about every DE + DT's VA wishlist now.

Why? if all JTS does is let you get off the line normally(ie. the first tick), with enough vision why would anybody want JTS? Atleast that's the way I see it. Someone want to prove me wrong?

The problem I have is that the name "Jump the Snap" is horribly misleading.

Originally posted by GoKu777
Originally posted by britdevine316


With all the attribute VA's getting nerfed, JTS should be in just about every DE + DT's VA wishlist now.

Why? if all JTS does is let you get off the line normally(ie. the first tick), with enough vision why would anybody want JTS? Atleast that's the way I see it. Someone want to prove me wrong?

The problem I have is that the name "Jump the Snap" is horribly misleading.



Even 70 vision won't get you off on tick 1 every time. From what I've seen with my pretty good DE, JTS works very good, and with attribute VA's gettin nerfed, I would think JTS is one of the better choices now

Originally posted by GoKu777
Why? if all JTS does is let you get off the line normally(ie. the first tick), with enough vision why would anybody want JTS?

a valid point, i'm sure you can still have a small chance to be delayed even with high vision. but there could be a point where points invested in JTS are a waste because your natural chance to avoid the delay combined JTS would result in more than 100% chance to avoid the delay.

if there's a VA reset, i'll probably try my DEs without it for a game or two to see just how often they get the delay with 60 vision and no JTS. i should be able to get a % chance to move on the first tick. then i can use this to see how many points i need in JTS to reach 100% chance to avoid the delay.

X = natural chance to avoid delay with no JTS. E.g. 80% chance to avoid the delay would have X=0.8
JP = number of veteran points to invest in JTS for 100% delay avoidance
(1/X - 1)/0.03 = JP

once i try some games with no JTS, if i find that they're only getting delayed 10% of the time, then i'd only need 4 points in JTS in order to never get delayed.but if my natural chance is under 69% (so in the above formula, X=0.69), then there's still a benefit to having 15 in JTS

edit: to fix the 0.02 to 0.03

Originally posted by monsterkill

X = natural chance to avoid delay with no JTS. E.g. 80% chance to avoid the delay would have X=0.8
JP = number of veteran points to invest in JTS for 100% delay avoidance
(1/X - 1)/0.02 = JP

once i try some games with no JTS, if i find that they're only getting delayed 10% of the time, then i'd only need 6 points in JTS in order to never get delayed.but if my natural chance is under 75% (so in the above formula, X=0.75), then there's still a benefit to having 15 in JT



I thought that JTS gave a +3% bonus to the vision check, so if you pass the vision check 90% of the time, you'd only need 4 in JTS to pass it 100% of the time (90% * 1.12).

you're right, fixed

Originally posted by Firenze
Originally posted by andrew7taylor

With 30 strength? LOL.

This player is hard to block. Each level of Heavyweight gives a +2% bonus to knocking down his blocker when breaking a block.

Requirement: 225 Weight

All DE's are 225 and above. High agi can easily break blocks.

one question about heavyweight, what is the point of knocking the blocker down if you already broke the block and are past the blocker?

Originally posted by SPYFELLOW
Originally posted by Firenze

Originally posted by andrew7taylor


With 30 strength? LOL.

This player is hard to block. Each level of Heavyweight gives a +2% bonus to knocking down his blocker when breaking a block.

Requirement: 225 Weight

All DE's are 225 and above. High agi can easily break blocks.

one question about heavyweight, what is the point of knocking the blocker down if you already broke the block and are past the blocker?

You don't always get past the blocker, once you've broken the block. Often they re-engage you when you've gotten behind them. Knocking them down ensures they won't be able to do it again.

Originally posted by GoKu777


Why? if all JTS does is let you get off the line normally(ie. the first tick), with enough vision why would anybody want JTS? Atleast that's the way I see it. Someone want to prove me wrong?

The problem I have is that the name "Jump the Snap" is horribly misleading.

Originally posted by britdevine316


Even 70 vision won't get you off on tick 1 every time. From what I've seen with my pretty good DE, JTS works very good, and with attribute VA's gettin nerfed, I would think JTS is one of the better choices now

I agree that getting moving at the first tick is very important. I think Goku777 is underestimating it. I agree with britdevine316 that it's going to be a top choice, however I hope and expect there to be more than one or two good top choices so we actually get to choose.

Originally posted by Firenze
Originally posted by SPYFELLOW

Originally posted by Firenze


Originally posted by andrew7taylor



With 30 strength? LOL.

This player is hard to block. Each level of Heavyweight gives a +2% bonus to knocking down his blocker when breaking a block.

Requirement: 225 Weight

All DE's are 225 and above. High agi can easily break blocks.

one question about heavyweight, what is the point of knocking the blocker down if you already broke the block and are past the blocker?

You don't always get past the blocker, once you've broken the block. Often they re-engage you when you've gotten behind them. Knocking them down ensures they won't be able to do it again.

This... and also that blocker is no longer free to engage a blitzing teammate, or a DT, etc

Originally posted by Redrover
I always figured it's impossible to get your dot to move BEFORE tick 1. So once you have enough vision to move at tick 1 the majority of the time (let's say 95%) then you're all set. The question is... does this occur at 30 vision or 50 vision?

This...what percentage chance do dlinemen have to pass the vision check at say 30? 40? 50?

Originally posted by britdevine316
JTS does work good.

With 51 vision and now 7 in JTS, look at my DE, also 7 in First Step

http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=472335&pbp_id=19046722

bfd, he is below 50 in speed and agility