Warrior General Games

Originally posted by Granted86
Originally posted by kostitsyn

Originally posted by phat_lyk_dat


misled...the problem is, theres nothing for you to base your opinion on. your CB is lvl 27. so at most u have wat like 3 VA's? theres no way you could have seen any results at all regarding long reach, let alone negative ones.

and while there is no way to simply look at the raw data and say how many PD's LR was directly responsible for, if you watch the plays and notice a decrease in the amount of catches u give up while your blanketing the WR, then its safe to saw its having some effect. besides, its not like the VA is worded ambiguously. it clearly states the % to get another roll. now everyones CB misses the PD rolls, so how could it not help?

personally i think it is a very good VA. not necessarily the best for CB's. but one of the top ones that should be a priority.

what it basically breaks down to for me is, if your CB is good, he will be in good position most of the time. rarely do i find my CB giving up catches to guys where they have simply out run/juked him. the problem is making a play on the ball once your in position. If u need to max track star and quick just to be able to keep up with the WR's you're covering, then your either severely out leveled our your build is flawed. thats why LR is a good VA. just like jumping(an extremely underrated ATR.) it helps you make a play on the ball. Once you reach higher levels, you will realize that this is much more important than being just a little bit faster.

I think Speed is the most overated skills for a CB if you play in a wel built offense. At least everybody always told me my CB would get burned, wasnt fast enough to keep up with the 100 speed WR, yet my guy only got burned once for a long ass TD in his whole career and it was when we screwed up our tactics and we played against colon griffer in season 5 or so.

I think long reach is the best Va, if you are consistenly in position to deflect pass, if not its worrthles, try to up skills to be able to be in position to deflect pass, first.

long reach is NOT the best va for cb's, cb's get 2 pd rolls to begin with, focus on those.
its not the 2nd 3rd or 4th best va for a cb either ... its in the 5-7 range of importance

unless the new changes to vision turn out to be drastic, LR is at worst 4th best imo

Originally posted by Granted86
Originally posted by kostitsyn

Originally posted by phat_lyk_dat


misled...the problem is, theres nothing for you to base your opinion on. your CB is lvl 27. so at most u have wat like 3 VA's? theres no way you could have seen any results at all regarding long reach, let alone negative ones.

and while there is no way to simply look at the raw data and say how many PD's LR was directly responsible for, if you watch the plays and notice a decrease in the amount of catches u give up while your blanketing the WR, then its safe to saw its having some effect. besides, its not like the VA is worded ambiguously. it clearly states the % to get another roll. now everyones CB misses the PD rolls, so how could it not help?

personally i think it is a very good VA. not necessarily the best for CB's. but one of the top ones that should be a priority.

what it basically breaks down to for me is, if your CB is good, he will be in good position most of the time. rarely do i find my CB giving up catches to guys where they have simply out run/juked him. the problem is making a play on the ball once your in position. If u need to max track star and quick just to be able to keep up with the WR's you're covering, then your either severely out leveled our your build is flawed. thats why LR is a good VA. just like jumping(an extremely underrated ATR.) it helps you make a play on the ball. Once you reach higher levels, you will realize that this is much more important than being just a little bit faster.

I think Speed is the most overated skills for a CB if you play in a wel built offense. At least everybody always told me my CB would get burned, wasnt fast enough to keep up with the 100 speed WR, yet my guy only got burned once for a long ass TD in his whole career and it was when we screwed up our tactics and we played against colon griffer in season 5 or so.

I think long reach is the best Va, if you are consistenly in position to deflect pass, if not its worrthles, try to up skills to be able to be in position to deflect pass, first.

long reach is NOT the best va for cb's, cb's get 2 pd rolls to begin with, focus on those.
its not the 2nd 3rd or 4th best va for a cb either ... its in the 5-7 range of importance

What is better? Quick maybe, but thats about it. If you're never burned and always have a shot at PD, why going for attribute first? Not saying football genius, track star quick high jumper ball hawk or jack hammer are totally useless, but for my guy there's no doubt that long reach is the best. If you are the kind of CB to get like 200 PD and 450 tackles per year, maybe ball hawk could be itneresting, but when you get thrown at 1-2 per game you dont need ball hawk, you dont need jackhammer, you dont really need to go overly on attribute. You just needs to put odds on your side that you'll PD the ball. My guy is amazing at it, so why not trying to get ever better?

Originally posted by kostitsyn
Originally posted by Granted86

Originally posted by kostitsyn


Originally posted by phat_lyk_dat



misled...the problem is, theres nothing for you to base your opinion on. your CB is lvl 27. so at most u have wat like 3 VA's? theres no way you could have seen any results at all regarding long reach, let alone negative ones.

and while there is no way to simply look at the raw data and say how many PD's LR was directly responsible for, if you watch the plays and notice a decrease in the amount of catches u give up while your blanketing the WR, then its safe to saw its having some effect. besides, its not like the VA is worded ambiguously. it clearly states the % to get another roll. now everyones CB misses the PD rolls, so how could it not help?

personally i think it is a very good VA. not necessarily the best for CB's. but one of the top ones that should be a priority.

what it basically breaks down to for me is, if your CB is good, he will be in good position most of the time. rarely do i find my CB giving up catches to guys where they have simply out run/juked him. the problem is making a play on the ball once your in position. If u need to max track star and quick just to be able to keep up with the WR's you're covering, then your either severely out leveled our your build is flawed. thats why LR is a good VA. just like jumping(an extremely underrated ATR.) it helps you make a play on the ball. Once you reach higher levels, you will realize that this is much more important than being just a little bit faster.

I think Speed is the most overated skills for a CB if you play in a wel built offense. At least everybody always told me my CB would get burned, wasnt fast enough to keep up with the 100 speed WR, yet my guy only got burned once for a long ass TD in his whole career and it was when we screwed up our tactics and we played against colon griffer in season 5 or so.

I think long reach is the best Va, if you are consistenly in position to deflect pass, if not its worrthles, try to up skills to be able to be in position to deflect pass, first.

long reach is NOT the best va for cb's, cb's get 2 pd rolls to begin with, focus on those.
its not the 2nd 3rd or 4th best va for a cb either ... its in the 5-7 range of importance

What is better? Quick maybe, but thats about it. If you're never burned and always have a shot at PD, why going for attribute first? Not saying football genius, track star quick high jumper ball hawk or jack hammer are totally useless, but for my guy there's no doubt that long reach is the best. If you are the kind of CB to get like 200 PD and 450 tackles per year, maybe ball hawk could be itneresting, but when you get thrown at 1-2 per game you dont need ball hawk, you dont need jackhammer, you dont really need to go overly on attribute. You just needs to put odds on your side that you'll PD the ball. My guy is amazing at it, so why not trying to get ever better?

your cb gets 2 pd/int rolls every time he is thrown at, if u can maximize those u dont need long reach ... if ur not in position to get the pd no amount of rolls will change that

va's have the ability to add +10 to an attribute so its ignorant to think that your cbs attributes are fine where they are .... even at lvl 53

also long reach is useless if ur rarely thrown at since a pass triggers it attribute boosters can help in the run and pass game so your player becomes better overall

Originally posted by Granted86
Originally posted by kostitsyn

Originally posted by Granted86


Originally posted by kostitsyn



Originally posted by phat_lyk_dat




misled...the problem is, theres nothing for you to base your opinion on. your CB is lvl 27. so at most u have wat like 3 VA's? theres no way you could have seen any results at all regarding long reach, let alone negative ones.

and while there is no way to simply look at the raw data and say how many PD's LR was directly responsible for, if you watch the plays and notice a decrease in the amount of catches u give up while your blanketing the WR, then its safe to saw its having some effect. besides, its not like the VA is worded ambiguously. it clearly states the % to get another roll. now everyones CB misses the PD rolls, so how could it not help?

personally i think it is a very good VA. not necessarily the best for CB's. but one of the top ones that should be a priority.

what it basically breaks down to for me is, if your CB is good, he will be in good position most of the time. rarely do i find my CB giving up catches to guys where they have simply out run/juked him. the problem is making a play on the ball once your in position. If u need to max track star and quick just to be able to keep up with the WR's you're covering, then your either severely out leveled our your build is flawed. thats why LR is a good VA. just like jumping(an extremely underrated ATR.) it helps you make a play on the ball. Once you reach higher levels, you will realize that this is much more important than being just a little bit faster.

I think Speed is the most overated skills for a CB if you play in a wel built offense. At least everybody always told me my CB would get burned, wasnt fast enough to keep up with the 100 speed WR, yet my guy only got burned once for a long ass TD in his whole career and it was when we screwed up our tactics and we played against colon griffer in season 5 or so.

I think long reach is the best Va, if you are consistenly in position to deflect pass, if not its worrthles, try to up skills to be able to be in position to deflect pass, first.

long reach is NOT the best va for cb's, cb's get 2 pd rolls to begin with, focus on those.
its not the 2nd 3rd or 4th best va for a cb either ... its in the 5-7 range of importance

What is better? Quick maybe, but thats about it. If you're never burned and always have a shot at PD, why going for attribute first? Not saying football genius, track star quick high jumper ball hawk or jack hammer are totally useless, but for my guy there's no doubt that long reach is the best. If you are the kind of CB to get like 200 PD and 450 tackles per year, maybe ball hawk could be itneresting, but when you get thrown at 1-2 per game you dont need ball hawk, you dont need jackhammer, you dont really need to go overly on attribute. You just needs to put odds on your side that you'll PD the ball. My guy is amazing at it, so why not trying to get ever better?

your cb gets 2 pd/int rolls every time he is thrown at, if u can maximize those u dont need long reach ... if ur not in position to get the pd no amount of rolls will change that

va's have the ability to add +10 to an attribute so its ignorant to think that your cbs attributes are fine where they are .... even at lvl 53

also long reach is useless if ur rarely thrown at since a pass triggers it attribute boosters can help in the run and pass game so your player becomes better overall

What if you already have a real good chance at making PD without long reach, but that it ups the percentage quite a bit, 33%.

Anyway I dont care what you think, if you wont go for long reach then I should just be happy, same goes both ways i guess.

Originally posted by kostitsyn
Originally posted by Granted86

Originally posted by kostitsyn


Originally posted by Granted86



Originally posted by kostitsyn




Originally posted by phat_lyk_dat





misled...the problem is, theres nothing for you to base your opinion on. your CB is lvl 27. so at most u have wat like 3 VA's? theres no way you could have seen any results at all regarding long reach, let alone negative ones.

and while there is no way to simply look at the raw data and say how many PD's LR was directly responsible for, if you watch the plays and notice a decrease in the amount of catches u give up while your blanketing the WR, then its safe to saw its having some effect. besides, its not like the VA is worded ambiguously. it clearly states the % to get another roll. now everyones CB misses the PD rolls, so how could it not help?

personally i think it is a very good VA. not necessarily the best for CB's. but one of the top ones that should be a priority.

what it basically breaks down to for me is, if your CB is good, he will be in good position most of the time. rarely do i find my CB giving up catches to guys where they have simply out run/juked him. the problem is making a play on the ball once your in position. If u need to max track star and quick just to be able to keep up with the WR's you're covering, then your either severely out leveled our your build is flawed. thats why LR is a good VA. just like jumping(an extremely underrated ATR.) it helps you make a play on the ball. Once you reach higher levels, you will realize that this is much more important than being just a little bit faster.

I think Speed is the most overated skills for a CB if you play in a wel built offense. At least everybody always told me my CB would get burned, wasnt fast enough to keep up with the 100 speed WR, yet my guy only got burned once for a long ass TD in his whole career and it was when we screwed up our tactics and we played against colon griffer in season 5 or so.

I think long reach is the best Va, if you are consistenly in position to deflect pass, if not its worrthles, try to up skills to be able to be in position to deflect pass, first.

long reach is NOT the best va for cb's, cb's get 2 pd rolls to begin with, focus on those.
its not the 2nd 3rd or 4th best va for a cb either ... its in the 5-7 range of importance

What is better? Quick maybe, but thats about it. If you're never burned and always have a shot at PD, why going for attribute first? Not saying football genius, track star quick high jumper ball hawk or jack hammer are totally useless, but for my guy there's no doubt that long reach is the best. If you are the kind of CB to get like 200 PD and 450 tackles per year, maybe ball hawk could be itneresting, but when you get thrown at 1-2 per game you dont need ball hawk, you dont need jackhammer, you dont really need to go overly on attribute. You just needs to put odds on your side that you'll PD the ball. My guy is amazing at it, so why not trying to get ever better?

your cb gets 2 pd/int rolls every time he is thrown at, if u can maximize those u dont need long reach ... if ur not in position to get the pd no amount of rolls will change that

va's have the ability to add +10 to an attribute so its ignorant to think that your cbs attributes are fine where they are .... even at lvl 53

also long reach is useless if ur rarely thrown at since a pass triggers it attribute boosters can help in the run and pass game so your player becomes better overall

What if you already have a real good chance at making PD without long reach, but that it ups the percentage quite a bit, 33%.

Anyway I dont care what you think, if you wont go for long reach then I should just be happy, same goes both ways i guess.

at best LR gives u a 45% CHANCE at a reroll, also gives a 55% GUARANTEE of no re roll

a real good chance is what 70-85%?

i am telling u this from experience, you wont find to many cb's that didnt spend a year on a gutted team with more PD's than Jamaal ... average of 3.5 Pd's a game in 5 seasons .... i wont share with you the best va's and why they are the best, but kno that i made the same mistake last of dropping 15 vxp in LR last season ...

then spoke with some agents of successful pro cb's and now my cb is better than ever, id say one of the best level 42 cb's in all of glb

but ye continue wasting your vxp there, youll be in season 10 real soon ... when ur player begins to decline then ull understand

VAs should go 1/3rd in long reach/quick/track star

Originally posted by Granted86
Originally posted by kostitsyn

Originally posted by Granted86


Originally posted by kostitsyn



Originally posted by Granted86




Originally posted by kostitsyn





Originally posted by phat_lyk_dat






misled...the problem is, theres nothing for you to base your opinion on. your CB is lvl 27. so at most u have wat like 3 VA's? theres no way you could have seen any results at all regarding long reach, let alone negative ones.

and while there is no way to simply look at the raw data and say how many PD's LR was directly responsible for, if you watch the plays and notice a decrease in the amount of catches u give up while your blanketing the WR, then its safe to saw its having some effect. besides, its not like the VA is worded ambiguously. it clearly states the % to get another roll. now everyones CB misses the PD rolls, so how could it not help?

personally i think it is a very good VA. not necessarily the best for CB's. but one of the top ones that should be a priority.

what it basically breaks down to for me is, if your CB is good, he will be in good position most of the time. rarely do i find my CB giving up catches to guys where they have simply out run/juked him. the problem is making a play on the ball once your in position. If u need to max track star and quick just to be able to keep up with the WR's you're covering, then your either severely out leveled our your build is flawed. thats why LR is a good VA. just like jumping(an extremely underrated ATR.) it helps you make a play on the ball. Once you reach higher levels, you will realize that this is much more important than being just a little bit faster.

I think Speed is the most overated skills for a CB if you play in a wel built offense. At least everybody always told me my CB would get burned, wasnt fast enough to keep up with the 100 speed WR, yet my guy only got burned once for a long ass TD in his whole career and it was when we screwed up our tactics and we played against colon griffer in season 5 or so.

I think long reach is the best Va, if you are consistenly in position to deflect pass, if not its worrthles, try to up skills to be able to be in position to deflect pass, first.

long reach is NOT the best va for cb's, cb's get 2 pd rolls to begin with, focus on those.
its not the 2nd 3rd or 4th best va for a cb either ... its in the 5-7 range of importance

What is better? Quick maybe, but thats about it. If you're never burned and always have a shot at PD, why going for attribute first? Not saying football genius, track star quick high jumper ball hawk or jack hammer are totally useless, but for my guy there's no doubt that long reach is the best. If you are the kind of CB to get like 200 PD and 450 tackles per year, maybe ball hawk could be itneresting, but when you get thrown at 1-2 per game you dont need ball hawk, you dont need jackhammer, you dont really need to go overly on attribute. You just needs to put odds on your side that you'll PD the ball. My guy is amazing at it, so why not trying to get ever better?

your cb gets 2 pd/int rolls every time he is thrown at, if u can maximize those u dont need long reach ... if ur not in position to get the pd no amount of rolls will change that

va's have the ability to add +10 to an attribute so its ignorant to think that your cbs attributes are fine where they are .... even at lvl 53

also long reach is useless if ur rarely thrown at since a pass triggers it attribute boosters can help in the run and pass game so your player becomes better overall

What if you already have a real good chance at making PD without long reach, but that it ups the percentage quite a bit, 33%.

Anyway I dont care what you think, if you wont go for long reach then I should just be happy, same goes both ways i guess.

at best LR gives u a 45% CHANCE at a reroll, also gives a 55% GUARANTEE of no re roll

a real good chance is what 70-85%?

i am telling u this from experience, you wont find to many cb's that didnt spend a year on a gutted team with more PD's than Jamaal ... average of 3.5 Pd's a game in 5 seasons .... i wont share with you the best va's and why they are the best, but kno that i made the same mistake last of dropping 15 vxp in LR last season ...

then spoke with some agents of successful pro cb's and now my cb is better than ever, id say one of the best level 42 cb's in all of glb

but ye continue wasting your vxp there, youll be in season 10 real soon ... when ur player begins to decline then ull understand

Oh, but my guy has been really good too. Without the special team tackle my guy is like 1:1 as far as tackle/PD last year, without the rushes I'm maybe .8:1. In post season, 2 catches allowed 2 interception 6 PD if i recall correctly. So far this season 3 passes thrown my way 3 PD. Maybe PD is only the 7th best VA, but it looks like it works pretty well for me. Highly depends on your build.

Granted86 has it right... it's just a chance on a reroll and it's extremely hard to determine which PD is done from a reroll and which PD is done in the first two initial rolls. So the more likely your CB is to get a PD from natural attributes and tactics, the less likely this specific VA is going to help you.

All we're saying is it's nothing you should throw all your first 15 va's in. It's something you should get later on down the line. There are more important things than getting PD's and such... having those attributes helps you with run defense, pass deflections, coverages, and interception chances.

Long Reach only helps with deflections where you're in position and somehow miss the 2 rolls. That's all we're saying.
The value for LR isn't there early on... even if you have super tight coverage already.

Originally posted by phat_lyk_dat


CB #1 (like mine before i made changes) has no problem covering WR. sticks with him on routes, doesn't give cushion, and doesnt give up wide open catches, but, finds WR's catching the ball at times even when blanketing them. LR is a GREAT option, because i dont need help getting into position, i nned to actually get the PD.



if your CB is like CB#1 then LR is an excellent option, and while maybe not the very best, it should be in the discussion.



once in a while my cb gets beat, usually because he is the #1 cb on a AAA team, most wr's he goes up against are 2-6 levels higher ... he played 1st year in D league, 2nd in A, 3rd/4th in AA , 5th in AAA ... currently in AAA ...

Jamaal has always been the number 1 cb and teams do everything to get their best wr away from him so your argument about it being an 'excellent' option for # 1 cbs really holds no weight.

its a decent option, not good and not excellent, as i said #5-7 on the list for a well built cb
if u have a cb that can get there AND make a play on the ball, like jamaal long reach is a waste ... Jamaal has NATURAL long Reach

Originally posted by misled
All we're saying is it's nothing you should throw all your first 15 va's in. It's something you should get later on down the line. There are more important things than getting PD's and such... having those attributes helps you with run defense, pass deflections, coverages, and interception chances.

Long Reach only helps with deflections where you're in position and somehow miss the 2 rolls. That's all we're saying.
The value for LR isn't there early on... even if you have super tight coverage already.

definitely!!! if you ve maxed out the key attributes, adding long reach AFTER that would make your player impossible to throw at

Originally posted by Granted86
Originally posted by phat_lyk_dat



CB #1 (like mine before i made changes) has no problem covering WR. sticks with him on routes, doesn't give cushion, and doesnt give up wide open catches, but, finds WR's catching the ball at times even when blanketing them. LR is a GREAT option, because i dont need help getting into position, i nned to actually get the PD.



if your CB is like CB#1 then LR is an excellent option, and while maybe not the very best, it should be in the discussion.



once in a while my cb gets beat, usually because he is the #1 cb on a AAA team, most wr's he goes up against are 2-6 levels higher ... he played 1st year in D league, 2nd in A, 3rd/4th in AA , 5th in AAA ... currently in AAA ...

Jamaal has always been the number 1 cb and teams do everything to get their best wr away from him so your argument about it being an 'excellent' option for # 1 cbs really holds no weight.

its a decent option, not good and not excellent, as i said #5-7 on the list for a well built cb
if u have a cb that can get there AND make a play on the ball, like jamaal long reach is a waste ... Jamaal has NATURAL long Reach


your totally neglecting my point. you say your CB is great in coverage. if thats the case, then theres no reason to boost your natural attributes higher. im assuming your 1-4 VA's are SRD, AGI, VIS, and JMP? if you can already cover the WR, then its becomes a toss up between VIS, JMP, and LR. because those help you play the ball. you only need to be fast enough to stick to your man, which is a lot less than most expect. agility is underrated, but if its high enough to stick with WR's on slants your golden. VIS is even more important now, but how high it needs to be is still in the air. and jumping may be the most underratetd stat for CB's.

im saying that theres no reason to pump SPD to 100, when it doesnt really help you. theres no reason to get AGI above 80 with VA's.

When you have a great CB you probably dont have any glaring weaknesses, so instead of pumping your attributs to a lvl that isn't necessary, i believe its a better option to go for any advantage over the WR that you can. I also never said its the first or even second thing you need to work on. I had it at 15 last season and loved the results. that being said, ive reset them, and plan on going a slightly different route this time, but i will still be looking to pump it up in the near future.

Well you got my first 4, but you put them in the wrong order ...
speed is not the be all and end all, and is the most over rated attribute for cbs
the fact that u believe that your natural attributes are fine at a certain level i think is ignorance

being a great cover cb is not easy to do, but LR is a situational Va, if your CB blankets a WR, LR isnt the best option as it only makes your player better in certain situations, if you cant get the PD even when in position, u may want to try something to correct that ...

Originally posted by Granted86
Well you got my first 4, but you put them in the wrong order ...
speed is not the be all and end all, and is the most over rated attribute for cbs
the fact that u believe that your natural attributes are fine at a certain level i think is ignorance

being a great cover cb is not easy to do, but LR is a situational Va, if your CB blankets a WR, LR isnt the best option as it only makes your player better in certain situations, if you cant get the PD even when in position, u may want to try something to correct that ...



Saying LR is useless is like saying jumping is useless. Both are situational. If you cant keep up with the WR, no reason to have jumping, same with LR, that said if you can kep up with the WR, LR and jumping is deadly.