Warrior General Games

I still don't understand where the chance activation is. Anytime your FS is in "zone mode" he receives a 1% boost to spd/agi/vis. It's easy to buy that it works before the handoff because your safety is still in zone mode until you fully recognize the run play. The 15% increase to vision can help you recognize run earlier is all. If you have 15 in ZS, every time the qb drops back (my FS is in zone probably every play), you have 100% chance of having a 15% boost to spd/agi/vis until the receiver fully catches the ball.

If you're gonna be skeptical about ZS "triggering" when it's not something that is a chance thing like other SAs, i'm afraid i can't help you.

The most important time for a FS is when he's playing that zone. So at this moment, my safety receives 15% bonus to all 3 attributes instead of 15% to one, and then 13% to another. My safety can either make a better break on the ball, get in position for the PD/INT better, or be in better position to make the tackle after the catch. I'm sorry, if i'm not that interested in being slightly closer to the RB while my LB/DE makes yet another tackle. The moments i believe my FS needs the biggest advantage, he has it.

The ZS triggers when the play is a pass play. The ZS does not enact itself when it is a run play. Simple as that.

I highly doubt that the .000009th of a second it takes the computer to realize it is a run play allows the FS any benefit at all, therefore, when the other team runs the ball, the ZS never triggers. If it did trigger at all that would equate to what... a one foot or less lead jump on the play. Something so minor that the significance is invalid.

Also, if the following assumption is true, i.e. the ZS turns off when a player (RB, TE, WR) has the ball after a pass, than the ZS does not even work for the whole play. So, if the FS is involved or thrown at ~20 times a game, it allows the FS to get into position for those plays but if a catch is made that FS now loses those new found abilities. Compared to putting the vet points in the hard attributes of agility, speed, vision where those same abilities allow the FS to get into position AND remain "powered" up throughout the play.

Thus, the ZS "works" on roughly 50% of the plays, given an even offensive split. Again, give me something that works 100% of the time compared to half that.

basically what these comes down to is personal preference....

lets say your player has 70 in Ag/Sp/Vi
Say you have 15 VA points:

option A:

put 5 VA's into track star, quick, football genius
This will give your player 73.5 in each of Ag/Sp/Vi for every play you are on the field, run, pass, post-catch, special teams....every play

option B:

put 15 VA's into zone specialist
This will give your player 80.5 in each of Ag/Sp/Vi ONLY while the QB is holding on to the ball AND your player is in Zone. Your player will still have 70 in each of Ag/Sp/Vi during run plays and post-catch...

Yes, the bonus towards your skills will be great, but the amount of time your player has that bonus will be minimal. IMO, how minimal can very, but in certain situations (if you face a strong rushing attack) your bonus could be rendered virtually useless if ZS is used.

its going to be personal preference, some will take the higher risk for the higher reward, some will like the safety of knowing your player is better on each and every play hes on the field...

Originally posted by Challenge Everything
The ZS triggers when the play is a pass play. The ZS does not enact itself when it is a run play. Simple as that.

I highly doubt that the .000009th of a second it takes the computer to realize it is a run play allows the FS any benefit at all...

Just on a sidenote: There's no .000009th of a second in GLB. The SIM is calculated in ticks - so either you make the right call a tick earlier or there's no difference at all.

ZS triggers on run plays with a vision boost if you were going to play in zone

Originally posted by Cactus71
ZS triggers on run plays with a vision boost if you were going to play in zone

...only till the safety realizes it's run. After that, all bonus is gone.

Originally posted by RAPB
Originally posted by Cactus71
ZS triggers on run plays with a vision boost if you were going to play in zone...only till the safety realizes it's run. After that, all bonus is gone.
Which equates to how many "ticks?" Maybe 2 or 3 tops and that translates into how many steps?

Answer = not much benefit if any at all.

Originally posted by chronoaug
For FS, most all FSs should have it maxed out at 15 (or rumored 20 when you hit lvl 50).

I'm level 51 and I just checked. No higher then 15.

one thing I dont see mentioned at all is the relative costs of the two theories.

Simply put, yes, ZS only fires on pass plays (which realistically with most teams means 2 out of every 3 plays) so assuming that, it fires 66% of the time, but also costs 66% less than the "15 in each of the attribute VA" theory.

With ZS, for 15 VP you get +15% spd / agi / vision and to get that in an "always on" configuration, you have to spend 45 VP. 3 times as much!!

Put another way, the soonest you can max out ZS is around lvl 37-38ish. The soonest you can max out your "always on attribute monster" is level 57 or so. In real life terms its the difference of about 4 seasons.

Here's the finishing move in my mind - you can max out ZS first, and by the time the other build has all +15 in spd / agi / vis boosters, the ZS guy will have +10 in each of those as well. So which would you rather want:

1) +25% spd/agi/vis on pass plays, and +10% every other tick of the GLB day,

or

2) +15% all the time?


I think people get caught up in the "principle" of things like this. Heck yeah in principle +15% all the time is way better than +15% some of the time. But the devil is in the details. The +15% all the time is ungodly expensive compared to being able to get +15% 2/3rds of the time.

I tend to break things down into cost ratios.........

With ZS, I am getting 45% of boosts for the cost of 15 SP. That's 3% per VP spent per play it activates.

A straight up attribute boost VA is 1% per VP spent per play it activates.


Over 100 plays, the ZS will fire off 66 times for a net effect of 200% worth of boosts per VP spent.

Over 100 plays, the attribute boost will fire off 100 times for a net effect of 100% worth of boosts per VP spent.

Your math is a "best case scenario" and not a realistic case scenario. In other words, you are sugar coating the "positives" to better suit your desires. Or, in other words, try again.

Originally posted by Challenge Everything
Your math is a "best case scenario" and not a realistic case scenario. In other words, you are sugar coating the "positives" to better suit your desires. Or, in other words, try again.

lol. And you proceed to "punt" on your response and dismiss without details to better suit your desires. Tell me specifically what I have sugarcoated? I have no desire here other than to make the best damn FS i can and use the limited means I have (VP, SP, whatever) to improve him as efficiently as I can.

Why don't you tell me what the realistic case scenario is in your mind, and I will run the EXACT math on that.

The main variable that is up for debate is how many plays you think ZS fires on. I went from experience over the last 5 seasons, it's been 66% passes conservatively. That average was higher previously...remember season 6? Most teams passed all day. That shifted last season as power backs become en vogue, but appears to be heading back. Whatever, we can call that 50% if you wish.

The irrefutable math is that whenever you have the 45 VP's to get you 15 Track Star, 15 Quick and 15 Football Genius, you could have otherwise gone the route of 15 Zone specialist, 10 track star, 10 quick and 10 football genius by that exact same point in time. 15+15+15 = 15 +10 + 10 +10


Let me step you through it and you can tell me when I'm sugarcoating:

1) Have 15 VP's - *Level 35 ish, max in a VA is 10* 10/5/0/0 Zone Specialist / Track Star / Quick / Football Genius or 15/0/0 Track Star / Quick / Football Genius

2) Earn 5 more VP's - *Level 38 ish, max in a VA is 10* 10/5/5/0 Zone Specialist / Track Star / Quick / Football Genius or 15/5/0 Track Star / Quick / Football Genius

3) Earn 5 more VP's - *Over level 40, max in a VA is 15* 15/5/5/0 Zone Specialist / Track Star / Quick / Football Genius or 15/10/0 Track Star / Quick / Football Genius

4) Earn 5 more VP's - *Over level 40, max in a VA is 15* 15/5/5/5 Zone Specialist / Track Star / Quick / Football Genius or 15/15/0 Track Star / Quick / Football Genius

5) Earn 5 more VP's - *Over level 40, max in a VA is 15* 15/10/5/5 Zone Specialist / Track Star / Quick / Football Genius or 15/15/5 Track Star / Quick / Football Genius

6) Earn 5 more VP's - *Over level 40, max in a VA is 15* 15/10/10/5 Zone Specialist / Track Star / Quick / Football Genius or 15/15/10 Track Star / Quick / Football Genius

7) Earn 5 more VP's - *Over level 40, max in a VA is 15* 15/10/10/10 Zone Specialist / Track Star / Quick / Football Genius or 15/15/15 Track Star / Quick / Football Genius


At that point, you have on passing plays (i'll assume it doesnt activate at all on running plays) +25% spd/agi/vision up until the ball is caught on passing plays, and then +10% to those attributes after that (or on all running plays).

OR you'll have a base +15% on all plays run or pass, pre or post catch. Going the "Challenge Everything" route

Put in more real world terms, with hard numbers.

Assuming a Free Safety with Spd / Agi / Vis all at 68 base, you have two courses presented


1) Spd/Agi/Vis at 78.2 all the time

or

2) Spd/Agi/Vis at 85 on all passing plays up until the ball is caught that drops to 74.8 every other GLB tick of the game. And that "85" is achievable 4 seasons sooner, when you're player is in his mid to late 30's levels.

Originally posted by sbuck143
Put in more real world terms, with hard numbers.

Assuming a Free Safety with Spd / Agi / Vis all at 68 base, you have two courses presented


1) Spd/Agi/Vis at 78.2 all the time

or

2) Spd/Agi/Vis at 85 on all passing plays up until the ball is caught that drops to 74.8 every other GLB tick of the game. And that "85" is achievable 4 seasons sooner, when you're player is in his mid to late 30's levels.

Sounds great!

...exept you don't really need vision bonus if you got it at the third cap already. So it's 15/8/7 compared to 0/15/15. And even on pass plays, the bonus ends as soon as the ball is caught (...and doesn't start when playing cover 0 or blitzing).

Anyway: ZS sure is a good VA for a FS.

Originally posted by RAPB
Originally posted by sbuck143

Put in more real world terms, with hard numbers.

Assuming a Free Safety with Spd / Agi / Vis all at 68 base, you have two courses presented


1) Spd/Agi/Vis at 78.2 all the time

or

2) Spd/Agi/Vis at 85 on all passing plays up until the ball is caught that drops to 74.8 every other GLB tick of the game. And that "85" is achievable 4 seasons sooner, when you're player is in his mid to late 30's levels.

Sounds great!

...exept you don't really need vision bonus if you got it at the third cap already. So it's 15/8/7 compared to 0/15/15. And even on pass plays, the bonus ends as soon as the ball is caught (...and doesn't start when playing cover 0 or blitzing).

Anyway: ZS sure is a good VA for a FS.


I maintain you can never have enough vision as a free safety. Unholy vision = unholy plays and breaks on balls. Jedi powers almost

And I accounted for the bonus ending in my #2 scenario above.