Warrior General Games

Originally posted by Granted86
its easier to get open then it is to follow someone step for step
even harder to follow someone step for step AND make a play on the ball when the qb is throwing the ball away from them


also keep in mind the qb is trying to throw the ball away from the cb, we need all Physical Attributes(and higher vision) along with tackling, and catching to be effective in man to man
wr's and qb's can act cb's have to react ... and react correctly ... jukes, pump fakes ... and so on

Originally posted by Granted86
Originally posted by Granted86

its easier to get open then it is to follow someone step for step
even harder to follow someone step for step AND make a play on the ball when the qb is throwing the ball away from them


also keep in mind the qb is trying to throw the ball away from the cb, we need all Physical Attributes(and higher vision) along with tackling, and catching to be effective in man to man
wr's and qb's can act cb's have to react ... and react correctly ... jukes, pump fakes ... and so on

If you have enough speed, agility, and vision along with a bit of jumping here and there, you shouldn't have any problems going up against people of equivalent talent.

Originally posted by Xelstyle
Originally posted by Granted86

Originally posted by Granted86


its easier to get open then it is to follow someone step for step
even harder to follow someone step for step AND make a play on the ball when the qb is throwing the ball away from them


also keep in mind the qb is trying to throw the ball away from the cb, we need all Physical Attributes(and higher vision) along with tackling, and catching to be effective in man to man
wr's and qb's can act cb's have to react ... and react correctly ... jukes, pump fakes ... and so on

If you have enough speed, agility, and vision along with a bit of jumping here and there, you shouldn't have any problems going up against people of equivalent talent.

i wish it was that easy ...

remember a wr knows here he is going, a cb has to react without getting faked out ...

jus think in the nfl, you can name 5 -10 great wr's for every great cb cause a cb needs to be almost perfect to be considered a shutdown cb and even champ bailey gets beat, cause you can have perfect coverage on a wr, but if your qb is great, a cb can only do so much ...

confidence(30+) - if not your player will play off the wr after a completion as he wont want to get beat again, making the wrs job easier

str/tackling - cbs still have to try and assist in the run defense, especially to the outside and screens also have to make sure to tackle the wideout if they make a reception tackling, if not could be a touchdown needs to be atleast 40 to stand a chance against powerbacks

stamina - cbs use more stamina since we have to run around following recievers, espiaclly with this creative route thing now ...

speed and agility - we need just as high as wrs or else we cant keep up(3rd cap asap)

jumping - gives us the chance to get the pd. w.o it the qb will make those touch passes over the cb's head even if the cb is in perfect coverage (2nd cap atleast)

vision - has to be high(3rd cap asap) to avoid jukes from the wr or pumpfakes/look offs from the qb

carrying(for some) if ur cb is a punt/kick returners, carrying has to also have points put into it ...

... and after all that ... catching to get a few ints

wr's can focus on speed and agility only and train all other attributes, cb's cant ignore any except punting/kicking/throwing

its not cb vs. wr, its more like cb vs. qb/wr so the fact wrs need a vision check makes it fair ... and realistic

and while wr's route running, which gives a boost to speed and agility is the first sa, we have to invest points into the whole tree to get to SC(our boost in speed and agility) which is last on our tree

Granted86, your analysis is rooted in your perception of how things should be rather than how they actually are. CBs do not need 40+ str/tackling. My CBs have very few missed tackles and have never put a SP in to either. CBs do not need 3rd cap Vision (68+). They do not need 2nd cap Jumping (it is useful though)--most WRs don't even have that.. They certainly don't "need" Carrying or Catching.

Your claim that "wr's can focus on speed and agility only and train all other attributes, cb's cant ignore any except punting/kicking/throwing" is just biased bullshit. Sure, WRs can focus on Speed, Agility (and Catching) and be effective. CBs can likewise focus on Speed, Agility (And Vision) and be effective.

Ironically, your argument would work for other defensive positions like LBs and SSs who really do have too much to increase to keep up with the offense. The CB is one of the more balanced defensive positions.

Originally posted by Granted86
Originally posted by Blamo

I think Smooth Operator is going to be a bigger factor than the vision check... Even then, I can't imagine that much more than the softcap for vision is going to be really needed. I just couldn't imagine Bort making it so another skill has to be at 60-68 for WRs not to be gimped in some way. As it is WR probably has to wait the longest to become a good player. WRs before level 20 or so are pretty lol worthy.

not true all postions take time to become a good , wr's dont have to wait the longest



I can't think of a single position that takes longer to reach fruition than WR does. Nothing else really comes close IMO.

Originally posted by Viscount
Vision has always been a questionable attribute for WRs, but with all of Bort's proposed updates in the off-season, how important will vision be?

According to the Changelog WRs will now have a vision check to react to bad passes. Also, the CBs who invested in Smooth Operator to get Shutdown Coverage will have the benefit of that previously useless SA now reducing a WRs vision when they're in man coverage.

Troy Williamson? His whole problem with his career in the the NFL hasn't been catching, it's been VISION.

1- Him getting hit in the head
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=81gpKrIicjU

2-The infamous Denver game
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=81gpKrIicjU

Originally posted by Jack Del Rio
CBs don't needs INTS to be effective. They don't need catching to be effective.

They need it to be good. Catching defines their "sphere of influence" so to speak, which affects their ability to deflect passes in addition to grab INTs.

Originally posted by drakeborn
Granted86, your analysis is rooted in your perception of how things should be rather than how they actually are. CBs do not need 40+ str/tackling. .

That was true until last year. The emergence of power backs has made strength and tackling much more important for CBs who have any role in rush defense, against power backs in particular. So it's true most of the time they don't need it, but when they do, it's the difference between a 15 yard gain and a long TD run.

Originally posted by drakeborn
Granted86, your analysis is rooted in your perception of how things should be rather than how they actually are. CBs do not need 40+ str/tackling. My CBs have very few missed tackles and have never put a SP in to either. CBs do not need 3rd cap Vision (68+). They do not need 2nd cap Jumping (it is useful though)--most WRs don't even have that.. They certainly don't "need" Carrying or Catching.

Your claim that "wr's can focus on speed and agility only and train all other attributes, cb's cant ignore any except punting/kicking/throwing" is just biased bullshit. Sure, WRs can focus on Speed, Agility (and Catching) and be effective. CBs can likewise focus on Speed, Agility (And Vision) and be effective.

Ironically, your argument would work for other defensive positions like LBs and SSs who really do have too much to increase to keep up with the offense. The CB is one of the more balanced defensive positions.

cbs dont need vision 60+?
http://goallineblitz.com/game/player.pl?player_id=818275

your player, not mine

a wr has the benefit of having the qb being his "eyes", put the ball where the cb isnt, or the qb can pumpfake to help the wr get open

a cb man to man is on an island without any help, if a cb only has spped/agility/vision he will see wat is happening and be with the wr but wont beable to make a play w.o jumping/catching especially if the qb has vision 60+ and is accuurate

are u telling me u think its easier to run a route then it is to defend a route? no b/c a route runner has a plan, knows what he is gonna do ... a cb has to adjust second by second

if the cb has the same jumping as a wr the advantage goes to the wr because the qb throws the ball TO THE WR and away from the cb

vision needs to be hardcapped b/c when a cb turns his back to run with the wr, the wr can hook back and will be open as long as the qb hits him

as i said before there is a reason there are so many great wr's in the league(nfl), and so few shutdown cbs...

i'll name a few wrs, and u can name great cb's in the league ...

randy moss
larry fitzgerald
reggie wayne
tory holt
terell owens

now ur turn name 5 shutdown corners in the nfl right now ... if u can ....

nmandi asamougha

champ bailey

charles woodson

antonio cromartie

asante samuel

Terrence Newman when healthy

Originally posted by Rickey-P
nmandi asamougha

champ bailey

charles woodson

antonio cromartie

asante samuel

shutdown now: nmandi asamougha
was shutdown: champ bailey
antonio cromartie ... one year doesnt make u shutdown
charles woodson ... REALLY close
shutdown? asante samuel? i guess u didnt see the eagles vs cardinals game ...

antonio cromartie is not a shut down...just because he led in ints 2 years ago doesnt make him shutdown, jammer is better than cromartie making qb's throw more towards cromartie

some more wrs .. wes welker, anquan boldin, chad johnson, tj houj, marques colston