Like I said, he doesn't like some of Bort's changes or the sim, it doesn't have much to do with losing. He's complained all season.
Forum > North American Pro League > USA Conference > I am looking for people to help me on the Guide to Creating Players
Greg B
offline
offline
Originally posted by Auris
Originally posted by jrry32
Originally posted by Auris
Originally posted by G B Evil
Originally posted by Luzod
Originally posted by G B Evil
no point in updating the guide until bort figures how what the hell is going to work with builds
dude, stfu, please.
ignore me (there is a script for it) or you stfu
kthxbye
Spoke the internet tough guy who thinks his team is the only one with quality players so he must win no matter what... good way, keep going.
Auris give it a rest man, I thought you used to like MEM? BTW go back to the start of the season, someone made a thread saying the Title is MEM's and all of the MEM guys said, don't give us the title...we aren't invincible.
nothing against mem, I like you tbh, but this guy acts like such a sore loser that get me pissed
This has nothing to do with us losing jack ass, if it was I would have "this has something to do with us losing" in my comments. I have not been happy with bort's changes since the get go
Originally posted by jrry32
Originally posted by Auris
Originally posted by G B Evil
Originally posted by Luzod
Originally posted by G B Evil
no point in updating the guide until bort figures how what the hell is going to work with builds
dude, stfu, please.
ignore me (there is a script for it) or you stfu
kthxbye
Spoke the internet tough guy who thinks his team is the only one with quality players so he must win no matter what... good way, keep going.
Auris give it a rest man, I thought you used to like MEM? BTW go back to the start of the season, someone made a thread saying the Title is MEM's and all of the MEM guys said, don't give us the title...we aren't invincible.
nothing against mem, I like you tbh, but this guy acts like such a sore loser that get me pissed
This has nothing to do with us losing jack ass, if it was I would have "this has something to do with us losing" in my comments. I have not been happy with bort's changes since the get go
Ubasstards
offline
offline
i would help, but my build guide has impossible goals unless you slow build to level 40
PP
offline
offline
Originally posted by G B Evil
no point in updating the guide until bort figures how what the hell is going to work with builds
Actually, he does have a point. It honestly really is pretty hard to say X is a primary, when Bort could easily change it, and often does several times over 1 ssn alone. OL, P & K are fairly easy, but, after that, I'd say that at least 1 primary has shifted in my mind each ssn.
no point in updating the guide until bort figures how what the hell is going to work with builds
Actually, he does have a point. It honestly really is pretty hard to say X is a primary, when Bort could easily change it, and often does several times over 1 ssn alone. OL, P & K are fairly easy, but, after that, I'd say that at least 1 primary has shifted in my mind each ssn.
joemiken
offline
offline
Originally posted by PP
Originally posted by G B Evil
no point in updating the guide until bort figures how what the hell is going to work with builds
Actually, he does have a point. It honestly really is pretty hard to say X is a primary, when Bort could easily change it, and often does several times over 1 ssn alone. OL, P & K are fairly easy, but, after that, I'd say that at least 1 primary has shifted in my mind each ssn.
True, but the major attributes (as defined by level bonuses given) really don't change for any player. Agility has taken on more importance in the last few seasons and I think people are starting to catch on that a LB might need strength and vision is good, but the primary attributes are unchanged and still relevant.
Originally posted by G B Evil
no point in updating the guide until bort figures how what the hell is going to work with builds
Actually, he does have a point. It honestly really is pretty hard to say X is a primary, when Bort could easily change it, and often does several times over 1 ssn alone. OL, P & K are fairly easy, but, after that, I'd say that at least 1 primary has shifted in my mind each ssn.
True, but the major attributes (as defined by level bonuses given) really don't change for any player. Agility has taken on more importance in the last few seasons and I think people are starting to catch on that a LB might need strength and vision is good, but the primary attributes are unchanged and still relevant.
PP
offline
offline
"unchanged"? I think we'll have to agree to disagree on that one, Joe. If I were to start building a HB today, it would be a completely different approach than I would have used last ssn, and that would have been different than the ssn before that and the ssn before that (honestly). The same applies to DTs, CBs & QBs. WRs, TEs, Safes & DEs haven't been quite so bad, but they have also changed and who knows how they'll be changed next ssn? FBs, Ps, Ks & OL guys are the only ones that my build would/should have progressed the same all these ssns.
When I'm talking "major attributes," I'm talking about which would be the very 1st I'd train up, if I were doing a slow build. That may or may not be along the lines of what you're thinking. To me, the ones you need to get the highest are the majors.
When I'm talking "major attributes," I'm talking about which would be the very 1st I'd train up, if I were doing a slow build. That may or may not be along the lines of what you're thinking. To me, the ones you need to get the highest are the majors.
JTD
offline
offline
Originally posted by PP
"unchanged"? I think we'll have to agree to disagree on that one, Joe. If I were to start building a HB today, it would be a completely different approach than I would have used last ssn, and that would have been different than the ssn before that and the ssn before that (honestly). The same applies to DTs, CBs & QBs. WRs, TEs, Safes & DEs haven't been quite so bad, but they have also changed and who knows how they'll be changed next ssn? FBs, Ps, Ks & OL guys are the only ones that my build would/should have progressed the same all these ssns.
When I'm talking "major attributes," I'm talking about which would be the very 1st I'd train up, if I were doing a slow build. That may or may not be along the lines of what you're thinking. To me, the ones you need to get the highest are the majors.
That's more meta-gaming than actual structural changes to the code PP. The Major's and Minor's havent changed since S1. Also the fact that you need a high agility these days on an O-linemen has much more to do with the emergence of agility/speed freaks along the D-line as opposed to anything that Bort did with true code changes. Im sure if monstrous Hulk's along the D-line started having a little success, then the meta game would shift back over to O-linemen front loading str/blocking to combat that.
The same is true for just about every position. Also on that note, I dont think even Bort knows exactly what will work when he is trying to forsee how the AI of the game engine will work as he makes changes or as people build players in unexpected ways. From that standpoint, he is as much at the mercy of the community as we are the engine.
"unchanged"? I think we'll have to agree to disagree on that one, Joe. If I were to start building a HB today, it would be a completely different approach than I would have used last ssn, and that would have been different than the ssn before that and the ssn before that (honestly). The same applies to DTs, CBs & QBs. WRs, TEs, Safes & DEs haven't been quite so bad, but they have also changed and who knows how they'll be changed next ssn? FBs, Ps, Ks & OL guys are the only ones that my build would/should have progressed the same all these ssns.
When I'm talking "major attributes," I'm talking about which would be the very 1st I'd train up, if I were doing a slow build. That may or may not be along the lines of what you're thinking. To me, the ones you need to get the highest are the majors.
That's more meta-gaming than actual structural changes to the code PP. The Major's and Minor's havent changed since S1. Also the fact that you need a high agility these days on an O-linemen has much more to do with the emergence of agility/speed freaks along the D-line as opposed to anything that Bort did with true code changes. Im sure if monstrous Hulk's along the D-line started having a little success, then the meta game would shift back over to O-linemen front loading str/blocking to combat that.
The same is true for just about every position. Also on that note, I dont think even Bort knows exactly what will work when he is trying to forsee how the AI of the game engine will work as he makes changes or as people build players in unexpected ways. From that standpoint, he is as much at the mercy of the community as we are the engine.
joemiken
offline
offline
Major attributes (as defined by level-up bonuses) would be...
QB: Strength, Vision, Confidence, Throwing, Stamina (?)
RB: Strength, Speed, Agility, Vision, Confidence, Carrying
FB: Strength, Blocking, Agility, Carrying
WR: Speed, Agility, Jumping, Stamina, Vision, Catching
TE: Strength, Vision, Blocking, Catching
OT: Strength, Agility, Vision, Confidence, Blocking
OG: Strength, Confidence, Blocking
C: Strength, Blocking
DE: Strength, Speed, Agility, Tackling
DT: Strength, Agility, Tackling
LB: Strength, Agility, Stamina, Vision, Confidence, Tackling
CB: Speed, Agility, Jumping, Stamina, Vision, Catching
FS: Speed, Stamina, Vision, Tackling, Catching
S: Speed, Stamina, Vision, Tackling, Catching
K: Confidence, Kicking
P: Confidence, Punting
Obviously, there will be some differences if you go w/ a blocking/receiving TE, blocking/rushing FB, possession/speed WR, etc, but those are what I consider the "core" attributes as given by the game. The reason I say that, is that after every level up, 2 points are distributed among these points, while 1 point is distributed among secondary attributes. For instance, a center gets 1 point every level in strength/blocking, while a WR gets .33 in every primary attribute. To my knowledge, these attributes have never changed since the game began. If you build a player and place the most importance on these attributes, it's pretty hard to screw up.
QB: Strength, Vision, Confidence, Throwing, Stamina (?)
RB: Strength, Speed, Agility, Vision, Confidence, Carrying
FB: Strength, Blocking, Agility, Carrying
WR: Speed, Agility, Jumping, Stamina, Vision, Catching
TE: Strength, Vision, Blocking, Catching
OT: Strength, Agility, Vision, Confidence, Blocking
OG: Strength, Confidence, Blocking
C: Strength, Blocking
DE: Strength, Speed, Agility, Tackling
DT: Strength, Agility, Tackling
LB: Strength, Agility, Stamina, Vision, Confidence, Tackling
CB: Speed, Agility, Jumping, Stamina, Vision, Catching
FS: Speed, Stamina, Vision, Tackling, Catching
S: Speed, Stamina, Vision, Tackling, Catching
K: Confidence, Kicking
P: Confidence, Punting
Obviously, there will be some differences if you go w/ a blocking/receiving TE, blocking/rushing FB, possession/speed WR, etc, but those are what I consider the "core" attributes as given by the game. The reason I say that, is that after every level up, 2 points are distributed among these points, while 1 point is distributed among secondary attributes. For instance, a center gets 1 point every level in strength/blocking, while a WR gets .33 in every primary attribute. To my knowledge, these attributes have never changed since the game began. If you build a player and place the most importance on these attributes, it's pretty hard to screw up.
PP
offline
offline
Originally posted by JTD
Also the fact that you need a high agility these days on an O-linemen has much more to do with the emergence of agility/speed freaks along the D-line as opposed to anything that Bort did with true code changes.
that's VERY true and why I put the OL in the bottom. Bort has changed the blocking of the OL, but that hasn't really changed how they needed to be built. The DTs changed that. So, I didn't count them. I only counted the ones that Bort's changes either directly or indirectly changed fairly significantly.
If one is looking at just the majors and minors, as defined by "level-up bonuses," that's been the same since the beginning, which is what you and Joe are referring to. However, I was looking at the skills that are most important, to produce the top player, which I'd think should be covered in a build guide. In many cases, Bort has directly and indirectly changed that and appears to be planning on continuing to change it.
I understand what you and Joe are saying, and am not saying it's wrong. I just don't get how you can create a good build guide when none of us knows what's going to be most important for most positions next ssn...And, if you do, pls pm it to me. Sure, there are some general areas that most likely won't hurt to slap points into, but they may not get you much either, and you may be screwing your dot by not putting it "here" instead.
Completely separate issue, it really, really, REALLY stinks that recruiting occurs before Bort's changes. That turns it into a crap shoot.
Also the fact that you need a high agility these days on an O-linemen has much more to do with the emergence of agility/speed freaks along the D-line as opposed to anything that Bort did with true code changes.
that's VERY true and why I put the OL in the bottom. Bort has changed the blocking of the OL, but that hasn't really changed how they needed to be built. The DTs changed that. So, I didn't count them. I only counted the ones that Bort's changes either directly or indirectly changed fairly significantly.
If one is looking at just the majors and minors, as defined by "level-up bonuses," that's been the same since the beginning, which is what you and Joe are referring to. However, I was looking at the skills that are most important, to produce the top player, which I'd think should be covered in a build guide. In many cases, Bort has directly and indirectly changed that and appears to be planning on continuing to change it.
I understand what you and Joe are saying, and am not saying it's wrong. I just don't get how you can create a good build guide when none of us knows what's going to be most important for most positions next ssn...And, if you do, pls pm it to me. Sure, there are some general areas that most likely won't hurt to slap points into, but they may not get you much either, and you may be screwing your dot by not putting it "here" instead.
Completely separate issue, it really, really, REALLY stinks that recruiting occurs before Bort's changes. That turns it into a crap shoot.
PP
offline
offline
Originally posted by joemiken
If you build a player and place the most importance on these attributes, it's pretty hard to screw up.
I respectfully disagree, Joe. In many of those positions, if you spread your points somewhat evenly over those skills, your player is going to be well below average, at best. In some cases, like the FB, TE, C or K, if you don't work very hard on some other areas not listed, he'll be horrid.
I'm done now
If you build a player and place the most importance on these attributes, it's pretty hard to screw up.
I respectfully disagree, Joe. In many of those positions, if you spread your points somewhat evenly over those skills, your player is going to be well below average, at best. In some cases, like the FB, TE, C or K, if you don't work very hard on some other areas not listed, he'll be horrid.
I'm done now
I added everyone who I thought expressed interest. If I missed you, PM me.
jktooley
offline
offline
step 1 to creating new players - get a second job
step 2 to creating new players - buy lots of flex
step 3 to creating new players - brace yourself for massive pendulum-like changes in build effectiveness.
glad i could help
step 2 to creating new players - buy lots of flex
step 3 to creating new players - brace yourself for massive pendulum-like changes in build effectiveness.
glad i could help
You are not logged in. Please log in if you want to post a reply.
