Warrior General Games

I don't know if it was your intent, but your post seems to imply that we re-rolled because our builds were sub-par. The Purples were a solid squad in A8. We were a playoff team and championship contender every season until we dismantled and went slow-build at the end of S4. The majority of our players have been moved to other quality teams and are doing just fine.

I mean no offense by this, but any team with "pretty decent builds from the beginning" really shouldn't be mopping up in the BBB Leagues in S7. Maybe you meant that decent builds somehow diminish the effectiveness of VA's. I think it's the opposite. The better the build, the bigger the effect VA's have on that build.

Did we re-roll to get a leg-up on the competition for the long haul? Yeah, that had something to do with it. We wanted to build for long-term success. We also thought it would be fun to, as a team, take what we had learned about building players and improve on what was already a solid roster.

At the time, the timeline for competing with a slow-build team consisted of two miserable seasons, and the emergence of a powerhouse sometime during the third season. In fact, a half-assed slow build team I was on in SEA won a championship in its very first season, and shot straight to Pro in consecutive seasons, leaving trail of higher level teams in its wake. There's no way that happens now; VA's have most certainly extended that emergence by at least a season, or more.

Back then it was level 10-20's taking out 25-35's. Now it's level 25's trying to take out level 40's. The numerical difference in levels is the same, but the gap exponentially increases the higher that second number gets. When you add VA's on top of that, it seems maybe the decision to re-roll may have backfired on us Well, at least until player decay sets in. It will be the summer of slow-builders -- which will be cut short by another borting, I'm sure.

Again, I'm not trying to offend or pick a fight, but at least there's something to talk about around here. Oh, and if it seems like we're not giving proper credit to the two teams who cleaned our clocks, let me make that right.

GG - you guys really rocked us. We were expecting much closer matchups and the lopsided scores probably had more to do with your levels and current builds than VA's did, but they sure didn't help things

For us in the Vatican City our team growth is a matter of economics and enjoying the game. We wanted to build a team from scratch by bringing in some folks we knew along with a handful of players new to the game. We are hoping to develope a group of players that log in for the enjoyment of the game and the team, not just to build their players.

The economics are of such importance that we wanted to build a strong base and are focussed on stadium building in the first couple of seasons...once we have that and a couple of seasons growth for our core players then we can properly game plan (right now that is a bit of an exercise in futility).

Having stated that, a slow build approach is really the only sensible approach to building a team. We will get there eventually, in the mean time I am enjoying our teams social atmosphere and hopefully we can bring it to a league wide affair despite the obvious disparity of team infrastructures and talent levels.

Originally posted by Fish.SR
I don't know if it was your intent, but your post seems to imply that we re-rolled because our builds were sub-par. The Purples were a solid squad in A8. We were a playoff team and championship contender every season until we dismantled and went slow-build at the end of S4. The majority of our players have been moved to other quality teams and are doing just fine.

I mean no offense by this, but any team with "pretty decent builds from the beginning" really shouldn't be mopping up in the BBB Leagues in S7. Maybe you meant that decent builds somehow diminish the effectiveness of VA's. I think it's the opposite. The better the build, the bigger the effect VA's have on that build.

Did we re-roll to get a leg-up on the competition for the long haul? Yeah, that had something to do with it. We wanted to build for long-term success. We also thought it would be fun to, as a team, take what we had learned about building players and improve on what was already a solid roster.

At the time, the timeline for competing with a slow-build team consisted of two miserable seasons, and the emergence of a powerhouse sometime during the third season. In fact, a half-assed slow build team I was on in SEA won a championship in its very first season, and shot straight to Pro in consecutive seasons, leaving trail of higher level teams in its wake. There's no way that happens now; VA's have most certainly extended that emergence by at least a season, or more.

Back then it was level 10-20's taking out 25-35's. Now it's level 25's trying to take out level 40's. The numerical difference in levels is the same, but the gap exponentially increases the higher that second number gets. When you add VA's on top of that, it seems maybe the decision to re-roll may have backfired on us Well, at least until player decay sets in. It will be the summer of slow-builders -- which will be cut short by another borting, I'm sure.

Again, I'm not trying to offend or pick a fight, but at least there's something to talk about around here. Oh, and if it seems like we're not giving proper credit to the two teams who cleaned our clocks, let me make that right.

GG - you guys really rocked us. We were expecting much closer matchups and the lopsided scores probably had more to do with your levels and current builds than VA's did, but they sure didn't help things

I wasn't referring to Re-rolling whatsoever actually.

And by saying "Decent builds from the beginning" I meant that there are no slow builders on our roster. As a, what appears to be experienced GM, I would think you would know how tough recruiting is and I will take no credit away from the teams that have been in this league for the long haul especially when no one else knows the history of those teams. By no means do I think I have a perfect team or even the best team in the league but I give credit where it is due.

To be honest I just get tired of owners that talk a big game and then come up with excuse after excuse when their team doesn't back it up but for the majority it looks like we got rid of those types after last season so its all good.

Good Luck the rest of the way.

I do not think we spoke out of place at all. Matter of fact, I believe I said we would trounce most teams but lose to the two teams we lost to. Unlike fish, I will lay it out there. If our players were 5 lvls higher, we would have beaten both teams. The Vet Pts screwed us. We can overcome the lvl deficit but there is little we can do when bort decides to change the rules every damn season. How can one effectively implement a team strategy when the damn thing changes on a whim? Hell, My DE has been "borted" because he was getting too good!

Our team was one of the best in A8 and we were in constant competition for the championship (a team we recruited btw). I decided to cut some dead weight and to focus on guys that had shown a propensity to understand the game, and our brand of humor. So we released every player on the team and started a slow build. This was our target season, and in my heart of hearts I believe we would have been more competitive had it not been for yet another magical 53rd card, ala vet pts.

Some will argue that this is a beta, but I have never paid for a beta before. Perhaps bort should operate a seperate server to test his ideas before implementing them and affecting those that have laid out some cash. We will probably lose in the second round of the playoffs and that is ok. Next season, we will absolutely destroy any and every team in this league. It is a blessing in a way because it brings us one step closer season 10, where the "best" (and I use that term loosely) players will start to decline. All the while, we will still have 4 seasons to go and plenty of time to build our reserves.

Good luck to every team in this league, particularly those guys on the teams that beat us. You have worked hard and deserve to finally get out of the BBB leagues. We look forward to meeting you in the future...

Originally posted by Fish.SR

I mean no offense by this, but any team with "pretty decent builds from the beginning" really shouldn't be mopping up in the BBB Leagues in S7.

Now there's a hard truth for you. I mentioned it before, but between some bad builds and bad game plans we got left behind when most the original BBB15 got moved last season. It's frustrating - no other way to put it. Frustrating for us, probably frustrating for Vice City, and definitely frustrating for the folks that would be competing this season if not for the 2 teams that are badly out of place. I'm not sure where Bort's master plan went awry, but I am not a fan of how this has played out. We didn't even make the playoffs last season, if that gives you an idea of how competitive this league used to be. To go from struggling against 10 other teams with ratings at 51+ to "mopping up in the BBB Leagues in S7"........ It's actually been harder to keep interested this season than in the others where we were barely a .500 team. The forums reflect that pretty well I think.

I think next season Salem might be able to compete for the playoffs. I am thinking everyone should be getting around level 24 and with a slow build team you can usually compete with teams 5-10 levels higher. The best teams will depart and a few more gutted should arrive so anything is possible.

Originally posted by jmsne
with a slow build team you can usually compete with teams 5-10 levels higher

This used to be the case. I am on the Purples, as well as a couple other slow builds and a bunch of conventional teams. It used to be that most teams had a couple players here or there that had some spotty (sometimes downright terrible) builds and those builds/teams were easily beaten by lower level slow builders with 'perfect' or 'optimized' or 'exploit' builds. With the implementation of VA, the higher level guys are able to hide their deficits by adding a bunch of points where they should have been for much, much cheaper than it would be to actually fix them in the normal way. The higher you are, the more points you have to fix your build. Couple that with the original problem of competing with a higher level team and it spells doom for a lot of the slow builders.

Until decay sets in, there will not be a season 2 or beyond slow build team that will have success in the pros - the 5-10 levels and accompanying VAs are simply too much to overcome. In the bottom leagues, the slow builders will dominate since the competition down here is generally recent gut jobs or slow builders themselves. There are exceptions, but this seems to be the rule in most leagues I have been a part of.

tl, dr?

VAs make it easier for higher level teams to dominate lower level teams. Since there is no way to catch up to the higher level teams, slow builds will have to wait til season 11 or later for their season or so of Pro ball success.

I was thinking that over the next 3-4 seasons I could move up the ranks beating the teams that got demoted etc.. Theres also the teams that plan poorly to consider...

Originally posted by jmsne
I was thinking that over the next 3-4 seasons I could move up the ranks beating the teams that got demoted etc.. Theres also the teams that plan poorly to consider...

You can - my point wasn't that you couldn't be successful in the lower leagues, but he way the relegation system works, if you ARE successful, then you get promoted. Once you get promoted into a league where you are outleveled by 6-10 or more levels, generally, you're going to be screwed.

I'm sure there are exceptions, and things may change eventually, but the way things are right now - there will be no teams made of season 3 or later players that will have much success in the pros until after decay sets in.

(now I need to go look at the born on dates of all the pro rosters to make sure I'm not full of shit)

i'm sure i'm not the only one who spent money to create a slow build team based off other slow build teams who kicked my original teams ass year after year. so i wanted to have fun and win by doing what they did only to have the system changed after i spent my money on the old system. i think that's what the point is, and now my team that's never made it into a top 6 seed in the playoffs or won a playoff game is almost a lock for a top 2 seed. we've never had a better record than 11-5 and last year went 9-7 but this year are 10-1 with the same fucking team

and to back up saint, the best example i've got is the mayan prophecy (a season 3-4 team) now in canada pro kicked ass for 4 years only having one regular season loss until this year where they're 6-5. a team wins like 50 games in a row being outleveled by 10-15 levels across the board, then goes 6-5 when only outleveled by 4-6 levels. plus pro teams are getting more veteran points to kick our ass with while we're stuck 10 levels below the minimum to even qualify to get them by slowbuilding. but i've already spent my money so i just have to stick with my plan and go with the flow.

My concern (I'm not an owner just a vocal player.) is that when season ten rolls around and the tenth season players are supposed to start declining is that people are not going to want to end their players. It's the right thing to do but when the wheel squeaks it gets the grease. Somehow vet points end up translating to extended careers.

Originally posted by Cponyman
My concern (I'm not an owner just a vocal player.) is that when season ten rolls around and the tenth season players are supposed to start declining is that people are not going to want to end their players. It's the right thing to do but when the wheel squeaks it gets the grease. Somehow vet points end up translating to extended careers.

my fears as well...
It is pretty shitty when players play the game "too well" so the rules are changed right under their feet, all in the name of a "beta".

I am not too worried, by then slow builders will have vet points as well and my 5% bonus on 75 is better than their 10% bonus on 65

Originally posted by jmsne
I am not too worried, by then slow builders will have vet points as well and my 5% bonus on 75 is better than their 10% bonus on 65

I'm no math major but 10 per cent of 65 is 6.5. 5 per cent of 75 is 3.75.

Originally posted by Cponyman
Originally posted by jmsne

I am not too worried, by then slow builders will have vet points as well and my 5% bonus on 75 is better than their 10% bonus on 65

I'm no math major but 10 per cent of 65 is 6.5. 5 per cent of 75 is 3.75.

what he said...