Warrior General Games

I'm not about to start debating line by line about the merits of an MLB; it's clear we have philosophical differences about how the position is used. My question to you though, for the argument about an MLB engaging a blocker so other players can make the play... in the replays you provided, is 90 speed really necessary to engage a blocker a half yard in front of you? I'm all about overall team defense over individual stats (as I'm sure my posts on this forum can attest to), but a 75/75 MLB can engage those blockers just as well, but will have a greater chance of making the play themselves also.

Here are some plays that I feel help illustrate my point...

Agility, not speed, is what makes this play work; keeping up with the curl doesn't take speed, but with more agility he may have been in even better position for the pick:
http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=291679&pbp_id=2512257

More agility would have been more useful in turning this corner to register a hurry:
http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=291679&pbp_id=2512615

Watch how many times the TE (and thus the MB) changes direction on this crossing route. Since you're constantly turning, you have to constantly accelerate; a 75/75 MLB would have been in better position for a PD/Int (not to mention the tackle), than a 90/60 MLB.
http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=291679&pbp_id=2512960

Fine example of where agility trumps speed; note he only travels a total of 3-4 yards while shedding a blocker and covering his zone. With more agility, he has a better chance of a TFL, since he'll make that cut faster:
http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=291679&pbp_id=2513589

Several plays where the MLB just sits and covers his zone, and where speed is worthless since the play is coming right at him; agility is far more useful here since it allows the MLB to keep up with any potential jukes/fakes the HB is trying to throw at him, while allowing him to shed any potential blockers:
http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=291679&pbp_id=2513682
http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=291679&pbp_id=2513784
http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=291679&pbp_id=2513811
http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=291679&pbp_id=2513921
http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=291679&pbp_id=2514888 (obvious here)
http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=291679&pbp_id=2515889

Plays where speed and agility are both necessary. You can see where the WR's route running creates just enough space against the MLB to get open. Speed is needed to make the tackle, but a higher agility MLB wouldn't have left as much space, and would have already been closer to make the tackle:
http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=291679&pbp_id=2513889

One of the very few plays I've seen where speed would actually be more important. Not sure if it was faulty AI or what, but when the MB finally recognizes the play the HB already has like a 6 yard cushion:
http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=291679&pbp_id=2516015

Here is where overpursuit comes into play. If the QB had seen the HB breaking free, this could have been a TD if the HB can break from the FS. The MB clearly runs past the HB's route and left him wide open; note that when the MB comes out of his break the QB is still holding the ball. A 75/75 MLB would have sat on the HB much better than this:
http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=291679&pbp_id=2516501

I'm not saying that 90/60 MLB's are terrible in the slightest; I just think that for MLB's agility is more important than speed when you consider their duties. Note I am not talking about the merits of a 60/90 MLB either; I think at most they should be 10 apart or a 1:1 ratio so instead of 90/60 I would aim for 75/75 or 70/80. If you still prefer speed, then I still think a 80/70 MLB will be more effective than one with 90/60.

Originally posted by UnderDogs
Hard to argue with a guy winning championships in the pros.

He's not winning championships, but he is in the Pros. Quite an accomplishment in itself and not one to be taken lightly, but to say he's winning chips in the pros is just not true.

Originally posted by wallysmith
Here are some plays that I feel help illustrate my point...
You're examples make no sense compared to your argument. You made up a mythical hypothesis and tried to cherry pick plays to base it on (and many were not accurate, as shown below). Another thing to remember is the gamelogs you post involve us playing an offensive line in the mid 40s with our defense in the 38-42 range. We were extremely outleveled, yet they scored just 23 points on 2.5 ypc via the ground and 0 TDs and 2 picks via the air. Of course there were plays where their level 44 guards blocked our level 40 MLB, but they were the exception and not the rule.

Also, despite playing higher level backs (and some power backs), our LBs made 37 tackles, while missing just 1. Compare that to your team who made 37 tackles, but missed 14. To play your game, maybe that extra speed increased the force on the tackles and reduced the number of misses (of course, this is complete conjecture).

Originally posted by
Agility, not speed, is what makes this play work; keeping up with the curl doesn't take speed, but with more agility he may have been in even better position for the pick:
http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=291679&pbp_id=2512257
That was a MLB keeping up on a short curl route with a level 44 WR. He ended up in the right spot and got a PD. He has real low jumping so maybe that's why he didn't get the pick (instead of needing more agility).

Originally posted by
Fine example of where agility trumps speed; note he only travels a total of 3-4 yards while shedding a blocker and covering his zone. With more agility, he has a better chance of a TFL, since he'll make that cut faster:
http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=291679&pbp_id=2513589
He tackled a higher level (44) power back for a 1.5 yard gain. For all we know it was a TFL and then the back's VA/Special kicked in. Still, my "speed" LB tackled a power back at the LOS. I guess that shows he isn't as good as he could be. Maybe if he had more agility, he could have made the tackle better like your ILBs here:

http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=290168&pbp_id=2646485

or here:
http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=290168&pbp_id=2650399

Originally posted by
Here is where overpursuit comes into play. If the QB had seen the HB breaking free, this could have been a TD if the HB can break from the FS. The MB clearly runs past the HB's route and left him wide open; note that when the MB comes out of his break the QB is still holding the ball. A 75/75 MLB would have sat on the HB much better than this:
http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=291679&pbp_id=2516501
You have to be kidding me. This happens to corners with high vision all the time. Once the QB decides to throw, the covering players breaks off and heads towards the play. If you have real high vision (as this LB does), he will break as the throw is starting. If he doesn't make that pass, the MLB follows the back down the field like he did on the other plays.

Here's a play where my 30 gap MLB completely closes down a short "agility" pattern:
http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=291679&pbp_id=2515297

Originally posted by
I'm not saying that 90/60 MLB's are terrible in the slightest; I just think that for MLB's agility is more important than speed when you consider their duties. Note I am not talking about the merits of a 60/90 MLB either; I think at most they should be 10 apart or a 1:1 ratio so instead of 90/60 I would aim for 75/75 or 70/80. If you still prefer speed, then I still think a 80/70 MLB will be more effective than one with 90/60.

We'll just agree to disagree. I have been at or outleveled in every season for Lost City, won 2 titles (into the pro league this year) and never been worse than 5th in defense with pure speed. Now, there are certainly many ways to win in GLB but I see no reason to say that an 75/75 speed LB is *better* than a 90/60 one. In my experience, the teams with high speed LBs do better on defense. I'm sure 75/75 MLBs will do fine, but my experience is with the elite speed guys and it's been very positive.

I'm beginning to sound like way too much of an a**. I appreciate this forum and the ideas you guys have. There are sometimes where I have no clue what causes certain things in this game, so it's hard to pinpoint reasons for success (or failure). At the end of the day, my experience has shown me speed is huge on defense - but agility could be just as huge (or maybe it's a combo of punting and jumping ).

You could do a lot worse than having a LB with 90/60 or 75/75 speed/agility. So, whichever road you choose, you will probably have a solid player.

Originally posted by Arles
I'm beginning to sound like way too much of an a**. I appreciate this forum and the ideas you guys have. There are sometimes where I have no clue what causes certain things in this game, so it's hard to pinpoint reasons for success (or failure). At the end of the day, my experience has shown me speed is huge on defense - but agility could be just as huge (or maybe it's a combo of punting and jumping ).

You could do a lot worse than having a LB with 90/60 or 75/75 speed/agility. So, whichever road you choose, you will probably have a solid player.

Hah, word. Respect.

Yeah, I was planning a large counter-counter-counter-counter argument but I decided against it. That's one of the things I love about this game: the fact that we actually know very very little about how it works. I hope Bort never reveals the formulae that runs the game because it helps spur discussions like this.... it lets people come to their own conclusions.

One thing that I'd like to point out though... the Polk High Panthers is my real squad, not the Vindicators...

Damn what a fizzle.

Originally posted by UnderDogs
Damn what a fizzle.

No kidding. I haven' been this disappointed since Macho Man Randy Savage's rap album.

Wow, these people want blood.

Great discussion though.

Yeah, I was reaching a point where we would enter a downward spiral of 30 referenced plays on each side with no real outcome. I think both of us made a compelling argument and it comes down to which path people think fits their team.

Originally posted by Arles
Yeah, I was reaching a point where we would enter a downward spiral of 30 referenced plays on each side with no real outcome. I think both of us made a compelling argument and it comes down to which path people think fits their team.

Haha, yeah, pretty much this.

Wow, two people on the internet, realizing when to be civil and agree each other knows what they're talking about and the only difference stems from defensive philosophies.

*sniff...brings a tear to my eye.

If it's possible on the internet, then it's possible to have peace in the middle east.

Originally posted by Absolut Zero
Wow, two people on the internet, realizing when to be civil and agree each other knows what they're talking about and the only difference stems from defensive philosophies.

*sniff...brings a tear to my eye.

If it's possible on the internet, then it's possible to have peace in the middle east.

Let's not get carried away, now.

That was enjoyable.

Damn, just check out both these guys pedigrees. Both have large accounts and both have really impressive amounts of success (I can't even imagine how much Arles had to spend to have so many high lvl players and own a team). And they have shitloads of trophies.

Kudos to the discourse. Very informative. These guys really are pros at this.

Good discussion guys.

My MLB is about to tick 40 in the next game or so and I'm aiming for 80/70. He's set up with Defense General / Natural Leader with a secondary emphasis on Vision and some Superior Vision gear. I stopped training Tackling and Strength in the low 50s.

Should be fun. =]