Warrior General Games

Originally posted by LarryB
I disagree with essentially your entire build philosophy. But, he's your guy. Not mine. Let the results speak for themselves.

Over half your yardage (260ish) came in the two blow-outs at the beginning of the season. You've gotten approximately 140yds, 1 Td and 5 TFLs in the next 3 games (46.66 per game). (Also, your dude got 5 TFL in one of the blowouts)

That's sub-par at best with the competition you're up against. Harsh truth.

At the moment I'm not fussed about what he gets because I know my build isn't complete yet. Also, I don't have the benefit of running behind an extra-ordinary line like most 'elite' RBs do, though I would rate my O-Line as pretty good.

Also, I am surrendering carries to a higher-levelled back and am returning kicks so my touches are decreased. I'm still averaging 5.4 yards per carry in that span, so I wouldn't say my output has been 'sub-par' at best, just not a lot of yards/TDs due to lack of carries.

Harsh truth?

(Check my previous edit, deals with the ypc you're getting)

Absolutely. 70/70 spd/agi is effective up into AAA with correct builds. Put some of that speed eq into Agility to even them out, pick an SA and specialize in it. stop neglecting your vision and carrying. Be sure you're running on elusive and not combo. You have a great build with the primary stats. Now flesh your dude out.

Originally posted by LarryB
Absolutely. 70/70 spd/agi is effective up into AAA with correct builds. Put some of that speed eq into Agility to even them out, pick an SA and specialize in it. stop neglecting your vision and carrying. Be sure you're running on elusive and not combo. You have a great build with the primary stats. Now flesh your dude out.

I'm running on combo at the moment because I'm not sure whether elusive has been fixed or not. If it has been fixed I'll try it out and see what I get.

Like I've already said numerous times before, I'll add vision/carrying once agility/speed are 4-1'd.

Originally posted by LarryB
(Check my previous edit, deals with the ypc you're getting)

What my 5.4 ypc I'm getting in that span of 'sub-par' performances?

Originally posted by LarryB
That's sub-par at best with the competition you're up against. The one saving grace is that you're getting approximately 5.8 ypc when you're not blowing the team out.

So essentially, I'm performing at a 'sub-par' level because of a lack of carries?

No, against the competition you're facing, if you had paid mind to your vision as you leveled you'd have 80 speed instead of 86, with 35 vision and you'd be getting somewhere around 8-10 ypc. You're under performing the quality of your build. At your level, take 5 more off speed, (75) and put those 10 points into QC and you're looking at 9-11 ypc, with potential for greater longevity.

Honestly spike, I'm not making these things up. I've done the research with my own players. I've watched, in depth, replays from games and compared the stats I know with the plays and results. Check my track record with even just the HB forum itself. I'm not just saying stuff to sound cool.

There is a clear correlation between vision/SAs and ypc for elusive backs. Elusive is not broken if you have the correct stat distribution to use it (35-40 vision at your level)

I know your not making stuff up, but I just think that getting stats to a high cap as fast as possible will give you an advantage in the long-run. That means making some sacrifices at other stats, in this case vision/carrying.

I've also seen builds that are following much the same path as mine perform spectacularly, given the right climate. I'm one level from 4-1 capping agility (I've levelled since I posted my build, so agility is now 66.12) and then it's onto strength before hitting vision. I may go vision before strength actually to see how it affects my productivity in the way you say it would (i.e. my ypc going up to around 9).

Also, I don't plan on putting anything into SAs for a while because I think it's a waste this early on.

Originally posted by Spike25
I don't think you should neglect your most important stats in favour of working up less important ones early on. Don't get me wrong, I think getting vision up to 40 is important, I just don't think it is more important than working your primaries high.

This is basically what you have to live by despite the criticism. You wouldn't get anywhere if you adhered to today's build standards, which is what you're getting a lot of in this thread. All you'd end up with is a decent player wishing you'd had built him to be elite when you had the chance. I'm doing something similar with my power back, even to the extent that when I thought I was done with strength when it started to cost 4SP/point to raise it way back when, I am now going to add one or two final points into strength for 4 or 8 SP because really, the minor attributes can wait. When I 3rd capped strength, nobody was really doing that, and already in like one and a half seasons, everybody's doing it with their new HBs and working towards it with their old HBs. Vision can wait, and wait a long time.
About the tackle breaking potential you're seeking, I think that 2nd capping strength would show more results than 1st capping both strength and carrying, given similar SP costs to do both. People really overhype carrying as the secret to breaking tackles (I think bort said it helps slightly, and that slightly grew into incredibly via word of mouth), and I've yet to be convinced that it can be any sort of substitute for brute strength.

Originally posted by Jack Del Rio
Originally posted by Spike25

I don't think you should neglect your most important stats in favour of working up less important ones early on. Don't get me wrong, I think getting vision up to 40 is important, I just don't think it is more important than working your primaries high.

This is basically what you have to live by despite the criticism. You wouldn't get anywhere if you adhered to today's build standards, which is what you're getting a lot of in this thread. All you'd end up with is a decent player wishing you'd had built him to be elite when you had the chance. I'm doing something similar with my power back, even to the extent that when I thought I was done with strength when it started to cost 4SP/point to raise it way back when, I am now going to add one or two final points into strength for 4 or 8 SP because really, the minor attributes can wait. When I 3rd capped strength, nobody was really doing that, and already in like one and a half seasons, everybody's doing it with their new HBs and working towards it with their old HBs. Vision can wait, and wait a long time.
About the tackle breaking potential you're seeking, I think that 2nd capping strength would show more results than 1st capping both strength and carrying, given similar SP costs to do both. People really overhype carrying as the secret to breaking tackles (I think bort said it helps slightly, and that slightly grew into incredibly via word of mouth), and I've yet to be convinced that it can be any sort of substitute for brute strength.

Ok, thanks, good to see someone else out there is building similarly (albeit, with a different type of back).

So, would you recommend me adding a few more points to speed and/or agility once I get it to the 4-1 cap or should I just leave them be for the time being and work on 3-1 capping strength?

It's a tough call. Going from the 3rd to 4th cap with speed would give you about 5 more speed permanently, but at 4SP/point that's 4 levels of SP to do it (or one level and three boosts, which might not be as big of a deal). If I was making a speedy HB that's what I'd do. If strength is a secondary part of your build then it can wait until you do this, but if you want tackles broken regularly you'd probably have to abandon your hopes of raising speed much higher and go for 2nd capping strength right now. After that is done, there should be some room left to add SP into speed to bump it up a couple of points - this is the "safer" route, I guess, because you can reassess your need for speed after you're done with strength. 4th capping speed will give you over 100 with equipment at level 32, I think, so that's the appeal of 4th capping speed sooner rather than later.

I don't think I will go for adding any more to speed now, because I'll have around 95-96 at 32 with equipment I think, and that will probably be enough, seeing as how my agility will only be around 70, tops. I'll go straight to second-capping strength after finishing agility (one more level), since I think with that sort of speed and 60+ strength, he could absolutely dominate. Then it's on to the secondary attributes.

Given my strength is already at 30, do you tink it would make sense to keep training that on intense with carrying until I'm ready to add points, or should I switch to vision/confidence training now?

Originally posted by Spike25
I don't think I will go for adding any more to speed now, because I'll have around 95-96 at 32 with equipment I think, and that will probably be enough, seeing as how my agility will only be around 70, tops. I'll go straight to second-capping strength after finishing agility (one more level), since I think with that sort of speed and 60+ strength, he could absolutely dominate. Then it's on to the secondary attributes.

Given my strength is already at 30, do you tink it would make sense to keep training that on intense with carrying until I'm ready to add points, or should I switch to vision/confidence training now?

If you are planning to 2nd cap strength, I would recommend that you train it as long as you can...and if you are really good, you could get the training bar on strength to 95% or higher then get str to the 1st or 2nd cap, then train it once or twice more to get the extra bonus! Yay for an extra bonus!! woohoo

Keep in mind Spike, you're taking advice from a guy who got 5 TFLs and 2 lost fumbles in his two closest games so far.

Originally posted by supersoul
Keep in mind Spike, you're taking advice from a guy who got 5 TFLs and 2 lost fumbles in his two closest games so far.

Yeah Spike, listen to this kid. He's been here for all of two months and is criticizing my slow building HB for getting TFLs on my farm team. But what would I know? My highest leveled player is only 19 levels above his, and what's the difference between playing this game for 2 months and playing it for 7 months?
Thank you, supersoul, for ridding these forums of bad advice!
Please don't post here again, for your own sake.

Soloem: Thanks, I never thought of that. I'm gonna get strength to the second cap, so I'll try and get strength to around 95% before that and then train it once more when I get there. Saves me 3 SP!

supersoul: STFO. GTFO.

Jack Del Rio: Yeah, he's got a lvl 8 HB, I'm betting he knows everything. Also, lol at your 70-60something loss on the team your HB is on. They returned 7 kick-offs for TDs?! Sorry, I shouldn't laugh, but that's the only KR TDs they've got all season!