Warrior General Games

not to my knowledge. str and carrying will help stop fumbles, we are talking more about pass deflections after you've caught the ball. it *may* help, but that's just speculation.

Originally posted by PackMan97
not to my knowledge. str and carrying will help stop fumbles, we are talking more about pass deflections after you've caught the ball. it *may* help, but that's just speculation.

no bort has posted that it does help.

Originally posted by Billsman
Originally posted by knudlen

the biggest effect is having everyone who knows even a little bit about wide recievers mocking your build on the the forums.

Yo idiot, why does Bort have it in training if it has zero effect on a WR? You also need to invest in a spell checker. Come back when your players reach level 22. ha

i love when people ask questions when they think they aleady know the answer. go back to your hole and come back next season when bort posts something about confidence that you can take out of context.

Also, i never said it had zero effect, i implied raising it was stupid and anyone who knows anything about their position can tell you that. The drops you have when youre hit EXACTLY as youre catching it are, generally, a small percentage of a WR total drops, and that is the ONLY time carrying does anything for us. No one has reported significant, or even small, reductions in drops over the course of the season, and people stopped talking about carrying as a way to make a noticable change in a WR about 3 weeks ago. If you ever actually read the forums, you would know this.

And if you really want to play the epeen game of whos WR is better, my WR is 6 levels lower than yours, and put up better stats on a run heavy team at the same AA level as yours, against higher levelled competition, and most of that came from plays when i was in the WR1 slot. You're playing against equal level guys, in wr2 which is most often against the 3rd best CB, and doing statistically significantly less with your chances.

I'll post 2 Bort quotes this time, interpret them however you wish. Although I'll probably still be accused of twisting eveidence to support a theory....

Originally posted by Bort
Originally posted by Jed

For a WR, at what point does Catching stop and Carrying start? I see this turning into a "does he have control of the ball" thing, but will Catching keep working until he has full control and then Carrying kick in? Or will Carrying kick in as soon as the ball touches the receivers hand(s)?

Catching determines if he gets control of the ball from a pass. Carrying determines if he holds onto it when getting tackled, including getting tackled right right after catching it.
http://goallineblitz.com/game/forum_thread.pl?thread_id=125&page=3

Originally posted by Bort
Originally posted by Mobius

Wouldn't it make sense that the sim would have some sort of transition phase from catching to carry for YAC? If the defender hits the receiver anytime during this short phase the ball could get dislodged causing a drop or incomplete?

If you watch enough replays you will see WR's dropping the ball from getting touched right after catching it, so you're right on the money.
http://goallineblitz.com/game/forum_thread.pl?thread_id=1040354&page=2

Originally posted by Viscount

Originally posted by Bort

Carrying determines if he holds onto it when getting tackled, including getting tackled right right after catching it
Originally posted by Bort


If you watch enough replays you will see WR's dropping the ball from getting touched right after catching it, so you're right on the money.


so for your first quote, he gives 2 scenarios: being tackled, and a subset of being tackled - being tackled right as you 'catch' the ball. Being tackled any time when youre NOT catching the ball results in a fumble, not in a drop. So the only time it helps with drops is when youre tackled exactly at the same moment as youre performing your catch check.

how often that can happen leads us to his second quote. i mean, look at the language that he uses. 'if you watch enough replays'. Thats a clear implication that its not something that happens on a regular basis, and, like bort said, if you watch enough replays youre gonna easily notice how infrequently that occurs. Like, you dont see people saying we need points in tackling so that if the QB throws an interception near us, we need to be able to tackle the CB. Of course not, because its such a rare occurance that its foolish to plan for it. Yet I watch replays of 100% of my plays, and obviously focus and pay more attention on drops, and its nearly that rare that i get hit right as im catching a drop. And, when it does happen, you can tell graphically, so it's not a visually gray area.

Again, I'm not disputing that carrying helps in this one VERY specific not-very-common situation. My contention is that it happens so infrequently that any skill points put into carrying could be much beter utilized in nearly any other skill. I'd even conjecture that raising confidence would do more to lower drops than raising carrying, and id still never advocate putting a skill point into that either.

Think about it in another way. Every week, we get half a dozen guys posting 'well 3 games ago i raised my jumping 2 and i havent had a single drop!' or 'omg my vision went up and so far this season ive dropped 7 passes instead of 8' yet theres not a single person making those kind of claims for carrying. every person who was in here last offseason right after bort posted that, saying they were going to put all 15 of their boost points into carrying....where are those guys now? retired or embarassed is my guess. I remember maybe 1 person saying he put significant points into carry and regretted it, but i dont even remember anyone saying that carrying helped his build.

Players builds are everything. That is the key to what stats will and will not work for a player at any position. If an average player put a ton of SPs into carrying of course it will not work like they expected because they were average to being with. Vision will help out a WR if the WR has lower other stats. There is not a cookie cutter build for a WR position because you can make up a lack of one stat with stat of something else.

I have low vision and yet my WR seems to do fairly well.

Things to consider: Are you building the WR you want to build or building a WR that bests suits your QB?

Originally posted by knudlen

Think about it in another way. Every week, we get half a dozen guys posting 'well 3 games ago i raised my jumping 2 and i havent had a single drop!' or 'omg my vision went up and so far this season ive dropped 7 passes instead of 8' yet theres not a single person making those kind of claims for carrying. every person who was in here last offseason right after bort posted that, saying they were going to put all 15 of their boost points into carrying....where are those guys now? retired or embarassed is my guess. I remember maybe 1 person saying he put significant points into carry and regretted it, but i dont even remember anyone saying that carrying helped his build.

I'm not saying that raising carrying will definitely eliminate drops or deflections, I'm just saying that it is sometimes a factor, which Bort has said.

Look at this play for instance, my WR is "catching" the ball, whilst doing so he breaks a tackle by the RE but the CB then hits him and my WR drops the ball:
http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=180687&pbp_id=4439999

I think carrying could've have been a factor here.

yea i wasnt arguing with you personally though. this time at least the OP stated that i had said it had zero effect. clearly thats not what i meant, but i guess it wasnt clear enough to some people. My ideas about builds are always focused around the most effective use of skill points and skill point equivalency.

Originally posted by wontgodown
Originally posted by PackMan97

not to my knowledge. str and carrying will help stop fumbles, we are talking more about pass deflections after you've caught the ball. it *may* help, but that's just speculation.

no bort has posted that it does help.

my reply was with regards to the previous poster asking about STR.

I know carrying helps. Str does help against fumbles, everything else it does is speculation.

Originally posted by PackMan97
Originally posted by wontgodown

Originally posted by PackMan97


not to my knowledge. str and carrying will help stop fumbles, we are talking more about pass deflections after you've caught the ball. it *may* help, but that's just speculation.

no bort has posted that it does help.

my reply was with regards to the previous poster asking about STR.

I know carrying helps. Str does help against fumbles, everything else it does is speculation.

oh sorry man. i misinterpreted.

I think carrying helps slightly, to make the tougher closeup catches when covered really well or those catches that say deflected and the WR still catches them. I myself invested in jumping and that SA and did get my carrying up to around 26. I can't say that helps out all too much, but 26 carrying for a lvl 25 is plenty.

Originally posted by maddvirus
I think carrying helps slightly, to make the tougher closeup catches when covered really well or those catches that say deflected and the WR still catches them. I myself invested in jumping and that SA and did get my carrying up to around 26. I can't say that helps out all too much, but 26 carrying for a lvl 25 is plenty.

not really at all close to enough.

closer to too much than enough IMO.