route run is a major waste of points imo. you'd be better served putting the points directly into speed and agility.
Viscount
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Originally posted by Kung Set
route run is a major waste of points imo. you'd be better served putting the points directly into speed and agility.
Did you see the replays I posted on the previous page? The other WR (McLovin McDaniels) has used 10 SP more than me to raise speed by 5 whereas my WR (Ves Velker) spent 9 SP to get Route Run to 5 and in the replays my WR is considerably faster. So I would say the points were better spent in Route Run.
route run is a major waste of points imo. you'd be better served putting the points directly into speed and agility.
Did you see the replays I posted on the previous page? The other WR (McLovin McDaniels) has used 10 SP more than me to raise speed by 5 whereas my WR (Ves Velker) spent 9 SP to get Route Run to 5 and in the replays my WR is considerably faster. So I would say the points were better spent in Route Run.
Last edited Oct 23, 2008 11:08:54
Bukowski
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Originally posted by Kung Set
route run is a major waste of points imo. you'd be better served putting the points directly into speed and agility.
I hate when people spout of some nonsense, without backing it up with any tangible facts, whatsoever.
Where is the proof?
There is too much bad information based throughout these forums, in that same exact way...
route run is a major waste of points imo. you'd be better served putting the points directly into speed and agility.
I hate when people spout of some nonsense, without backing it up with any tangible facts, whatsoever.
Where is the proof?
There is too much bad information based throughout these forums, in that same exact way...
Kung Set
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Originally posted by Bukowski
Originally posted by Kung Set
route run is a major waste of points imo. you'd be better served putting the points directly into speed and agility.
I hate when people spout of some nonsense, without backing it up with any tangible facts, whatsoever.
Where is the proof?
There is too much bad information based throughout these forums, in that same exact way...
you say this like you have proven something yourself
Originally posted by Kung Set
route run is a major waste of points imo. you'd be better served putting the points directly into speed and agility.
I hate when people spout of some nonsense, without backing it up with any tangible facts, whatsoever.
Where is the proof?
There is too much bad information based throughout these forums, in that same exact way...
you say this like you have proven something yourself
Mob-6
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Or you could just answer his original question rather than putting the onus on him to back up your unsubstantiated comment...Where is your proof, first hand knowledge/experience?
Kung Set
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Originally posted by Mob-6
Or you could just answer his original question rather than putting the onus on him to back up your unsubstantiated comment...Where is your proof, first hand knowledge/experience?
Why would the onus be on me? The only starting point we have, really, is the ability description, which says it is for players that aren't fast of agile. That hasn't even been close to being proven incorrect, several cherry-picked replays notwithstanding.
But I'll admit defeat. Everyone please put points into Route Run, I would love it.
Or you could just answer his original question rather than putting the onus on him to back up your unsubstantiated comment...Where is your proof, first hand knowledge/experience?
Why would the onus be on me? The only starting point we have, really, is the ability description, which says it is for players that aren't fast of agile. That hasn't even been close to being proven incorrect, several cherry-picked replays notwithstanding.
But I'll admit defeat. Everyone please put points into Route Run, I would love it.
Last edited Oct 24, 2008 15:03:50
Bukowski
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Originally posted by Kung Set
Originally posted by Mob-6
Or you could just answer his original question rather than putting the onus on him to back up your unsubstantiated comment...Where is your proof, first hand knowledge/experience?
Why would the onus be on me? The only starting point we have, really, is the ability description, which says it is for players that aren't fast of agile. That hasn't even been close to being proven incorrect, several cherry-picked replays notwithstanding.
But I'll admit defeat. Everyone please put points into Route Run, I would love it.
Its a Flat Bonus.
Which means, its based on some sort of multiplication formula, which could only mean that the more Speed/Agility you have - the more Route Run is beneficial.
But even better, is that you've proven beyond a reasonable doubt, that you have no idea what you're talking about; all you did was present a non-educated guess, with no factual basis whatsoever.
Originally posted by Mob-6
Or you could just answer his original question rather than putting the onus on him to back up your unsubstantiated comment...Where is your proof, first hand knowledge/experience?
Why would the onus be on me? The only starting point we have, really, is the ability description, which says it is for players that aren't fast of agile. That hasn't even been close to being proven incorrect, several cherry-picked replays notwithstanding.
But I'll admit defeat. Everyone please put points into Route Run, I would love it.
Its a Flat Bonus.
Which means, its based on some sort of multiplication formula, which could only mean that the more Speed/Agility you have - the more Route Run is beneficial.
But even better, is that you've proven beyond a reasonable doubt, that you have no idea what you're talking about; all you did was present a non-educated guess, with no factual basis whatsoever.
Last edited Oct 24, 2008 17:08:54
knudlen
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holy shit i think i missed the fun. im gonna go back and read this slowly, savoring it!
knudlen
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Originally posted by Bukowski
Originally posted by Kung Set
Originally posted by Mob-6
Or you could just answer his original question rather than putting the onus on him to back up your unsubstantiated comment...Where is your proof, first hand knowledge/experience?
Why would the onus be on me? The only starting point we have, really, is the ability description, which says it is for players that aren't fast of agile. That hasn't even been close to being proven incorrect, several cherry-picked replays notwithstanding.
But I'll admit defeat. Everyone please put points into Route Run, I would love it.
Its a Flat Bonus.
Which means, its based on some sort of multiplication formula, which could only mean, that the more Speed/Agility you have - the more Route Run is beneficial.
But even better, is that you've proven beyond a reasonable doubt, that you have no idea what you're talking about, all you did was present a non-educated guess, with no factual basis whatsoever.
yea i mean, its pretty damn clear its a flat bonus. Regardless of whats considered "low", it says in the tooltip its important for receivers with low speed and agility. A mulitplyer, by definition, would be LESS beneficial for people with lower speed and agility, regardless of how much lower. The onus isnt on bukowski to prove anything when the people he is disagreeing with are making statements that, even in a vacuum applying only logic and no proof, are completely retarded.
Originally posted by Kung Set
Originally posted by Mob-6
Or you could just answer his original question rather than putting the onus on him to back up your unsubstantiated comment...Where is your proof, first hand knowledge/experience?
Why would the onus be on me? The only starting point we have, really, is the ability description, which says it is for players that aren't fast of agile. That hasn't even been close to being proven incorrect, several cherry-picked replays notwithstanding.
But I'll admit defeat. Everyone please put points into Route Run, I would love it.
Its a Flat Bonus.
Which means, its based on some sort of multiplication formula, which could only mean, that the more Speed/Agility you have - the more Route Run is beneficial.
But even better, is that you've proven beyond a reasonable doubt, that you have no idea what you're talking about, all you did was present a non-educated guess, with no factual basis whatsoever.
yea i mean, its pretty damn clear its a flat bonus. Regardless of whats considered "low", it says in the tooltip its important for receivers with low speed and agility. A mulitplyer, by definition, would be LESS beneficial for people with lower speed and agility, regardless of how much lower. The onus isnt on bukowski to prove anything when the people he is disagreeing with are making statements that, even in a vacuum applying only logic and no proof, are completely retarded.
Bukowski
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Originally posted by knudlen
Originally posted by Bukowski
Originally posted by Kung Set
Originally posted by Mob-6
Or you could just answer his original question rather than putting the onus on him to back up your unsubstantiated comment...Where is your proof, first hand knowledge/experience?
Why would the onus be on me? The only starting point we have, really, is the ability description, which says it is for players that aren't fast of agile. That hasn't even been close to being proven incorrect, several cherry-picked replays notwithstanding.
But I'll admit defeat. Everyone please put points into Route Run, I would love it.
Its a Flat Bonus.
Which means, its based on some sort of multiplication formula, which could only mean, that the more Speed/Agility you have - the more Route Run is beneficial.
But even better, is that you've proven beyond a reasonable doubt, that you have no idea what you're talking about, all you did was present a non-educated guess, with no factual basis whatsoever.
yea i mean, its pretty damn clear its a flat bonus. Regardless of whats considered "low", it says in the tooltip its important for receivers with low speed and agility. A mulitplyer, by definition, would be LESS beneficial for people with lower speed and agility, regardless of how much lower. The onus isnt on bukowski to prove anything when the people he is disagreeing with are making statements that, even in a vacuum applying only logic and no proof, are completely retarded.
Winner!
Originally posted by Bukowski
Originally posted by Kung Set
Originally posted by Mob-6
Or you could just answer his original question rather than putting the onus on him to back up your unsubstantiated comment...Where is your proof, first hand knowledge/experience?
Why would the onus be on me? The only starting point we have, really, is the ability description, which says it is for players that aren't fast of agile. That hasn't even been close to being proven incorrect, several cherry-picked replays notwithstanding.
But I'll admit defeat. Everyone please put points into Route Run, I would love it.
Its a Flat Bonus.
Which means, its based on some sort of multiplication formula, which could only mean, that the more Speed/Agility you have - the more Route Run is beneficial.
But even better, is that you've proven beyond a reasonable doubt, that you have no idea what you're talking about, all you did was present a non-educated guess, with no factual basis whatsoever.
yea i mean, its pretty damn clear its a flat bonus. Regardless of whats considered "low", it says in the tooltip its important for receivers with low speed and agility. A mulitplyer, by definition, would be LESS beneficial for people with lower speed and agility, regardless of how much lower. The onus isnt on bukowski to prove anything when the people he is disagreeing with are making statements that, even in a vacuum applying only logic and no proof, are completely retarded.
Winner!
knudlen
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Originally posted by Kung Set
route run is a major waste of points imo. you'd be better served putting the points directly into speed and agility.
Lets put some logic into this statement too. Lets say you have 61 speed and 61 agility, putting you into the 3:1 range. To raise both of them 3 points each through skill points alone, thats 18 (9+9) skill points. Now, since we've already addressed that RR is a flat bonus (and please kung, ive seen smart posts from you before, don't argue that point because its very clear) we just don't know how big that bonus is. Lets assume for the sake of an extreme example though, that 1 point in RR raises SPD and AGI .5 each. Thats an EXTREMELY conservative estimate btw. So, in order to raise them 3, we would need 6 points in RR. Thats 12 SP to raise it to 6 (1+1+2+2+3+3), over a levels worth less. That's pretty significant. if you assume a 1:1 ratio (a much more logical though obviously unprovable hypothesis), it's even more SP effective to raise it.
So really, as far as Skill Point Equivilancy, putting Route Run is more efficient than putting points in agility and speed themselves. Now of course, thats only true from the line of scrimmage to when you catch the ball. Route Run won't help you on kickoffs, or for getting any YACs, which overall makes the decision a little less clear cut. But, in terms of increasing your chances to catch the ball, Route Run is clearly both an effective SA, and once you hit 3:1, much more effective than raising the attributes themselves.
route run is a major waste of points imo. you'd be better served putting the points directly into speed and agility.
Lets put some logic into this statement too. Lets say you have 61 speed and 61 agility, putting you into the 3:1 range. To raise both of them 3 points each through skill points alone, thats 18 (9+9) skill points. Now, since we've already addressed that RR is a flat bonus (and please kung, ive seen smart posts from you before, don't argue that point because its very clear) we just don't know how big that bonus is. Lets assume for the sake of an extreme example though, that 1 point in RR raises SPD and AGI .5 each. Thats an EXTREMELY conservative estimate btw. So, in order to raise them 3, we would need 6 points in RR. Thats 12 SP to raise it to 6 (1+1+2+2+3+3), over a levels worth less. That's pretty significant. if you assume a 1:1 ratio (a much more logical though obviously unprovable hypothesis), it's even more SP effective to raise it.
So really, as far as Skill Point Equivilancy, putting Route Run is more efficient than putting points in agility and speed themselves. Now of course, thats only true from the line of scrimmage to when you catch the ball. Route Run won't help you on kickoffs, or for getting any YACs, which overall makes the decision a little less clear cut. But, in terms of increasing your chances to catch the ball, Route Run is clearly both an effective SA, and once you hit 3:1, much more effective than raising the attributes themselves.
KingDan23
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Originally posted by knudlen
Originally posted by Kung Set
route run is a major waste of points imo. you'd be better served putting the points directly into speed and agility.
Lets put some logic into this statement too. Lets say you have 61 speed and 61 agility, putting you into the 3:1 range. To raise both of them 3 points each through skill points alone, thats 18 (9+9) skill points. Now, since we've already addressed that RR is a flat bonus (and please kung, ive seen smart posts from you before, don't argue that point because its very clear) we just don't know how big that bonus is. Lets assume for the sake of an extreme example though, that 1 point in RR raises SPD and AGI .5 each. Thats an EXTREMELY conservative estimate btw. So, in order to raise them 3, we would need 6 points in RR. Thats 12 SP to raise it to 6 (1+1+2+2+3+3), over a levels worth less. That's pretty significant. if you assume a 1:1 ratio (a much more logical though obviously unprovable hypothesis), it's even more SP effective to raise it.
So really, as far as Skill Point Equivilancy, putting Route Run is more efficient than putting points in agility and speed themselves. Now of course, thats only true from the line of scrimmage to when you catch the ball. Route Run won't help you on kickoffs, or for getting any YACs, which overall makes the decision a little less clear cut. But, in terms of increasing your chances to catch the ball, Route Run is clearly both an effective SA, and once you hit 3:1, much more effective than raising the attributes themselves.
A well thought out, non-bias post? This isnt GLB is it?
Originally posted by Kung Set
route run is a major waste of points imo. you'd be better served putting the points directly into speed and agility.
Lets put some logic into this statement too. Lets say you have 61 speed and 61 agility, putting you into the 3:1 range. To raise both of them 3 points each through skill points alone, thats 18 (9+9) skill points. Now, since we've already addressed that RR is a flat bonus (and please kung, ive seen smart posts from you before, don't argue that point because its very clear) we just don't know how big that bonus is. Lets assume for the sake of an extreme example though, that 1 point in RR raises SPD and AGI .5 each. Thats an EXTREMELY conservative estimate btw. So, in order to raise them 3, we would need 6 points in RR. Thats 12 SP to raise it to 6 (1+1+2+2+3+3), over a levels worth less. That's pretty significant. if you assume a 1:1 ratio (a much more logical though obviously unprovable hypothesis), it's even more SP effective to raise it.
So really, as far as Skill Point Equivilancy, putting Route Run is more efficient than putting points in agility and speed themselves. Now of course, thats only true from the line of scrimmage to when you catch the ball. Route Run won't help you on kickoffs, or for getting any YACs, which overall makes the decision a little less clear cut. But, in terms of increasing your chances to catch the ball, Route Run is clearly both an effective SA, and once you hit 3:1, much more effective than raising the attributes themselves.
A well thought out, non-bias post? This isnt GLB is it?
Mob-6
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If RR was a multiplier effect on speed wouldn't that be a must have for any speedster build? Did flames ever go heavy RR on a 100+ speed WR and what were the conclusions?
A multiplier sounds a bit overpowered at higher levels if it doesn't have a sliding scale where its effect is reduced the higher your speed. I don't have any better guess for how it works though so...
A multiplier sounds a bit overpowered at higher levels if it doesn't have a sliding scale where its effect is reduced the higher your speed. I don't have any better guess for how it works though so...
PackMan97
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Originally posted by knudlen
Originally posted by Kung Set
route run is a major waste of points imo. you'd be better served putting the points directly into speed and agility.
Lets put some logic into this statement too. Lets say you have 61 speed and 61 agility, putting you into the 3:1 range. To raise both of them 3 points each through skill points alone, thats 18 (9+9) skill points. Now, since we've already addressed that RR is a flat bonus (and please kung, ive seen smart posts from you before, don't argue that point because its very clear) we just don't know how big that bonus is. Lets assume for the sake of an extreme example though, that 1 point in RR raises SPD and AGI .5 each. Thats an EXTREMELY conservative estimate btw. So, in order to raise them 3, we would need 6 points in RR. Thats 12 SP to raise it to 6 (1+1+2+2+3+3), over a levels worth less. That's pretty significant. if you assume a 1:1 ratio (a much more logical though obviously unprovable hypothesis), it's even more SP effective to raise it.
So really, as far as Skill Point Equivilancy, putting Route Run is more efficient than putting points in agility and speed themselves. Now of course, thats only true from the line of scrimmage to when you catch the ball. Route Run won't help you on kickoffs, or for getting any YACs, which overall makes the decision a little less clear cut. But, in terms of increasing your chances to catch the ball, Route Run is clearly both an effective SA, and once you hit 3:1, much more effective than raising the attributes themselves.
Except, let's say you take SPD/AGI to the +4 cap, that makes the points you put into RR even MORE valuable since it would cost even MORE to raise those skills! So, the higher your spd/agi, the better RR is because the more it would cost to raise spd/agi!
Originally posted by Kung Set
route run is a major waste of points imo. you'd be better served putting the points directly into speed and agility.
Lets put some logic into this statement too. Lets say you have 61 speed and 61 agility, putting you into the 3:1 range. To raise both of them 3 points each through skill points alone, thats 18 (9+9) skill points. Now, since we've already addressed that RR is a flat bonus (and please kung, ive seen smart posts from you before, don't argue that point because its very clear) we just don't know how big that bonus is. Lets assume for the sake of an extreme example though, that 1 point in RR raises SPD and AGI .5 each. Thats an EXTREMELY conservative estimate btw. So, in order to raise them 3, we would need 6 points in RR. Thats 12 SP to raise it to 6 (1+1+2+2+3+3), over a levels worth less. That's pretty significant. if you assume a 1:1 ratio (a much more logical though obviously unprovable hypothesis), it's even more SP effective to raise it.
So really, as far as Skill Point Equivilancy, putting Route Run is more efficient than putting points in agility and speed themselves. Now of course, thats only true from the line of scrimmage to when you catch the ball. Route Run won't help you on kickoffs, or for getting any YACs, which overall makes the decision a little less clear cut. But, in terms of increasing your chances to catch the ball, Route Run is clearly both an effective SA, and once you hit 3:1, much more effective than raising the attributes themselves.
Except, let's say you take SPD/AGI to the +4 cap, that makes the points you put into RR even MORE valuable since it would cost even MORE to raise those skills! So, the higher your spd/agi, the better RR is because the more it would cost to raise spd/agi!
Blamo
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Originally posted by knudlen
Originally posted by Kung Set
route run is a major waste of points imo. you'd be better served putting the points directly into speed and agility.
Lets put some logic into this statement too. Lets say you have 61 speed and 61 agility, putting you into the 3:1 range. To raise both of them 3 points each through skill points alone, thats 18 (9+9) skill points. Now, since we've already addressed that RR is a flat bonus (and please kung, ive seen smart posts from you before, don't argue that point because its very clear) we just don't know how big that bonus is. Lets assume for the sake of an extreme example though, that 1 point in RR raises SPD and AGI .5 each. Thats an EXTREMELY conservative estimate btw. So, in order to raise them 3, we would need 6 points in RR. Thats 12 SP to raise it to 6 (1+1+2+2+3+3), over a levels worth less. That's pretty significant. if you assume a 1:1 ratio (a much more logical though obviously unprovable hypothesis), it's even more SP effective to raise it.
So really, as far as Skill Point Equivilancy, putting Route Run is more efficient than putting points in agility and speed themselves. Now of course, thats only true from the line of scrimmage to when you catch the ball. Route Run won't help you on kickoffs, or for getting any YACs, which overall makes the decision a little less clear cut. But, in terms of increasing your chances to catch the ball, Route Run is clearly both an effective SA, and once you hit 3:1, much more effective than raising the attributes themselves.
Which is basically what I was thinking, but I just didn't know if this is how it worked in practice or not.
Originally posted by Mob-6
If RR was a multiplier effect on speed wouldn't that be a must have for any speedster build? Did flames ever go heavy RR on a 100+ speed WR and what were the conclusions?
A multiplier sounds a bit overpowered at higher levels if it doesn't have a sliding scale where its effect is reduced the higher your speed. I don't have any better guess for how it works though so...
I don't think it's a multiplier, but rather a flat amount that you get per level. Something like 1 speed/1 agility per level in the skill or something. Which doesn't make it as necessary for speedsters, but I also think that it'll retain it's value a lot longer than something like Head Fake, which diminishes in value as your competition gets better.
Originally posted by Kung Set
route run is a major waste of points imo. you'd be better served putting the points directly into speed and agility.
Lets put some logic into this statement too. Lets say you have 61 speed and 61 agility, putting you into the 3:1 range. To raise both of them 3 points each through skill points alone, thats 18 (9+9) skill points. Now, since we've already addressed that RR is a flat bonus (and please kung, ive seen smart posts from you before, don't argue that point because its very clear) we just don't know how big that bonus is. Lets assume for the sake of an extreme example though, that 1 point in RR raises SPD and AGI .5 each. Thats an EXTREMELY conservative estimate btw. So, in order to raise them 3, we would need 6 points in RR. Thats 12 SP to raise it to 6 (1+1+2+2+3+3), over a levels worth less. That's pretty significant. if you assume a 1:1 ratio (a much more logical though obviously unprovable hypothesis), it's even more SP effective to raise it.
So really, as far as Skill Point Equivilancy, putting Route Run is more efficient than putting points in agility and speed themselves. Now of course, thats only true from the line of scrimmage to when you catch the ball. Route Run won't help you on kickoffs, or for getting any YACs, which overall makes the decision a little less clear cut. But, in terms of increasing your chances to catch the ball, Route Run is clearly both an effective SA, and once you hit 3:1, much more effective than raising the attributes themselves.
Which is basically what I was thinking, but I just didn't know if this is how it worked in practice or not.
Originally posted by Mob-6
If RR was a multiplier effect on speed wouldn't that be a must have for any speedster build? Did flames ever go heavy RR on a 100+ speed WR and what were the conclusions?
A multiplier sounds a bit overpowered at higher levels if it doesn't have a sliding scale where its effect is reduced the higher your speed. I don't have any better guess for how it works though so...
I don't think it's a multiplier, but rather a flat amount that you get per level. Something like 1 speed/1 agility per level in the skill or something. Which doesn't make it as necessary for speedsters, but I also think that it'll retain it's value a lot longer than something like Head Fake, which diminishes in value as your competition gets better.
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