Warrior General Games

Originally posted by PP
I was referring to the post Bort made about preseason games the 1st yr we had them. I'm far too lazy to dig it up, but I'm 99.999999999999% certain that he wrote that it was to give us the chance to test out the AIs and such.

yep

Originally posted by PP
I was referring to the post Bort made about preseason games the 1st yr we had them. I'm far too lazy to dig it up, but I'm 99.999999999999% certain that he wrote that it was to give us the chance to test out the AIs and such.

Fact is that if both teams are testing stuff, that the best team will still likely win.

It is also very interesting to hear DDL arguing that regular season >> scrimmages because I've heard them say these regular season games they are losing are meaningless because they aren't trying.

Fact is, everyone wants the games that they won to count and the ones they lost to not count.

Scrimmage games should not count for anything. Many teams just use the last games tactics so it all depends on what type of team they played before.

PS: why don't you have the Rebel Yell and GSA wins for the Marauders?

Originally posted by SteelersInsider
Originally posted by PP

I was referring to the post Bort made about preseason games the 1st yr we had them. I'm far too lazy to dig it up, but I'm 99.999999999999% certain that he wrote that it was to give us the chance to test out the AIs and such.

Fact is that if both teams are testing stuff, that the best team will still likely win.



This is untrue.

Originally posted by SteelersInsider
Originally posted by PP

I was referring to the post Bort made about preseason games the 1st yr we had them. I'm far too lazy to dig it up, but I'm 99.999999999999% certain that he wrote that it was to give us the chance to test out the AIs and such.

Fact is that if both teams are testing stuff, that the best team will still likely win.

It is also very interesting to hear DDL arguing that regular season >> scrimmages because I've heard them say these regular season games they are losing are meaningless because they aren't trying.

Fact is, everyone wants the games that they won to count and the ones they lost to not count.



1- Not necessarily
2- True - the argument, SI, is that scrimmages aren't really games. sure, sometimes they're scheduled to gauge your team's strength against another team, but sometimes they're set up to test AI against a team that isn't necessarily testing their AI.

put me in the camp that says only the "real" games should count

Originally posted by SteelersInsider


It is also very interesting to hear DDL arguing that regular season >> scrimmages because I've heard them say these regular season games they are losing are meaningless because they aren't trying.

It's readily apparent which games we bothered with.

Check the box scores.

Originally posted by Okole
Originally posted by SteelersInsider

Originally posted by PP


I was referring to the post Bort made about preseason games the 1st yr we had them. I'm far too lazy to dig it up, but I'm 99.999999999999% certain that he wrote that it was to give us the chance to test out the AIs and such.

Fact is that if both teams are testing stuff, that the best team will still likely win.

It is also very interesting to hear DDL arguing that regular season >> scrimmages because I've heard them say these regular season games they are losing are meaningless because they aren't trying.

Fact is, everyone wants the games that they won to count and the ones they lost to not count.



1- Not necessarily
2- True - the argument, SI, is that scrimmages aren't really games. sure, sometimes they're scheduled to gauge your team's strength against another team, but sometimes they're set up to test AI against a team that isn't necessarily testing their AI.

put me in the camp that says only the "real" games should count



Are regular season games "real" games?

I've had several teams tell me *this* season that they are just playing vanilla so they don't give away all their secrets. Others have mentioned that I shouldn't look at their loss to ______ because they still haven't boosted or placed their boost points.

Let me also say that I don't view the first 2 preseason scrimmages the same as regular season scrimmages.

Originally posted by phthalatemagic
Originally posted by SteelersInsider

Originally posted by PP


I was referring to the post Bort made about preseason games the 1st yr we had them. I'm far too lazy to dig it up, but I'm 99.999999999999% certain that he wrote that it was to give us the chance to test out the AIs and such.

Fact is that if both teams are testing stuff, that the best team will still likely win.



This is untrue.


Go check the Mustangs, Galaxy Aces, and Krazy Monkeys scrimmages over the last 2 years then tell me that the better team usually doesn't win (even when just testing things).

Originally posted by Galkuris
Scrimmage games should not count for anything. Many teams just use the last games tactics so it all depends on what type of team they played before.

PS: why don't you have the Rebel Yell and GSA wins for the Marauders?


If scrimmage games don't count for anything, then there is ABSOLUTELY no way to compare any 2 teams not in the same league.

Originally posted by SteelersInsider
Originally posted by phthalatemagic

Originally posted by SteelersInsider


Originally posted by PP



I was referring to the post Bort made about preseason games the 1st yr we had them. I'm far too lazy to dig it up, but I'm 99.999999999999% certain that he wrote that it was to give us the chance to test out the AIs and such.

Fact is that if both teams are testing stuff, that the best team will still likely win.



This is untrue.


Go check the Mustangs, Galaxy Aces, and Krazy Monkeys scrimmages over the last 2 years then tell me that the better team usually doesn't win (even when just testing things).

Just let me know when you've finished fine tuning your theory.

Originally posted by SteelersInsider
Originally posted by Galkuris

Scrimmage games should not count for anything. Many teams just use the last games tactics so it all depends on what type of team they played before.

PS: why don't you have the Rebel Yell and GSA wins for the Marauders?


If scrimmage games don't count for anything, then there is ABSOLUTELY no way to compare any 2 teams not in the same league.

You do make a good point, but maybe it should only be to gauge "relative" strength of one league vs another, rather than strength of teams. It is a tough thing to formulate but your rankings are all that off from what they would be if all the teams were lumped together in one big league.

Well, except for the fact that the USA Pro is not nearly as spread out as you have it. The top 9 in the East and West can all beat the other teams in their league on any night. (maybe not all, but certainly most).

Originally posted by SteelersInsider
Originally posted by Galkuris

Scrimmage games should not count for anything. Many teams just use the last games tactics so it all depends on what type of team they played before.

PS: why don't you have the Rebel Yell and GSA wins for the Marauders?


If scrimmage games don't count for anything, then there is ABSOLUTELY no way to compare any 2 teams not in the same league.

ding ding ding!

exactly....this is ALL speculative

Unless I'm missing something, this doesn't really matter to any of us because we're all already here and my read of Bort's post is that only CPU teams are going to be sent down. So, since at least 2 of the 3 CPUs would naturally be dropped out of here anyway and none of us can move up (since we're already here and all), it won't impact us.

Still, to say that the preseason games are a gauge of anything is a huge stretch, IMO...And I think the same applies to the post season scrims. Except for the few times I've been too busy/lazy to change tactics, I've used each of them as test games. Look at our 2 pre & post season scrims against the Yell. We beat them by a combined score of something like 23450972634508976213085476018237654875687128921367457890645817234 to 3. Now look at last season's AAA#2 champ game against them. It was a coin flip that either of us could have won. Preseason season 4 score 54-3, champ game score 24-20. The champ game sure tells me that we weren't 51 points better than them by any stretch of the imagination. The preseason game said nothing at all about which was the better team. It was completely meaningless, like almost all pre & post season scrims are.

Originally posted by PP
Unless I'm missing something, this doesn't really matter to any of us because we're all already here and my read of Bort's post is that only CPU teams are going to be sent down. So, since at least 2 of the 3 CPUs would naturally be dropped out of here anyway and none of us can move up (since we're already here and all), it won't impact us.

Still, to say that the preseason games are a gauge of anything is a huge stretch, IMO...And I think the same applies to the post season scrims. Except for the few times I've been too busy/lazy to change tactics, I've used each of them as test games. Look at our 2 pre & post season scrims against the Yell. We beat them by a combined score of something like 23450972634508976213085476018237654875687128921367457890645817234 to 3. Now look at last season's AAA#2 champ game against them. It was a coin flip that either of us could have won. Preseason season 4 score 54-3, champ game score 24-20. The champ game sure tells me that we weren't 51 points better than them by any stretch of the imagination. The preseason game said nothing at all about which was the better team. It was completely meaningless, like almost all pre & post season scrims are.


Yes, you are missing something:

My ranking have nothing at all to do with Bort's relegation system. I was doing this long before he said that. My rankings are for fun only.

I agree with you that pre-season scrimmages (the 2 before the season) carry little weight in my book. Scrimmages during the season (which not all teams participate in), are a much better indicator. Many teams try hard in those games for bragging rights (see Aces vs Kai) or for recruiting purposes.

And just because there is a large difference in regular season score vs playoffs doesn't make one more valid that the other. Dong beat us by 40 in the regular season and then we beat them in the playoffs. We tried both times.

So whether a team tries their best in the regular season or preseason or regular season scrimmages, isn't anything I can control or figure out from looking at the score.

It's just for fun, but I think my rankings are pretty accurate in terms of judging how a team is playing.

I agree that many USA Pro team (and CPL is the same way) are pretty close and alot of games are 50/50. There isn't much difference between a #20 and a 40th ranked team. It wouldn't be hard to jump that many spots. So having 6 or 8 spots between 2 teams means very little.

So most important to least important:

1.) recent regular season games (vs good teams)
2.) older regular season games (vs good teams)
3.) recent regular season scrimmages (vs good teams)
4.) older regular season scrimmages (vs good teams)
5.) preseason scrimmages
6.) strength of league (how opponents have fared against other leagues)

I can tell you that the Mustangs D-line for instance will along dominate 95% of the teams out there even with 100% testing of the offense and defense. You can't prevent individual players *not* dominate based on builds.


And again.....like usual.....I have no problem with anyone tearing apart my rankings, but just suggest what you think is wrong and why. After looking at it, I may decide you are right.

The easiest way to prove a ranking wrong is on the field though. Win USA Pro and I can guarantee that you will be the top ranked USA team at least until the next season starts.