Warrior General Games

Think any build with that great a difference will see a poor number of receptions, the difference with speed over agility would be that when they did catch the ball it's more likely they'll be past the last defender and have a clear run to the endzone, while an agility back would be running a lot of 7-8yds hook routes and finesse plays, only to have the D to deal with after the catch.

Two different intentions from the two build types so it's hard to compare them, speed guys get yards and TD, can be awesome on a pass heavy team but be a nightmare on a run team, agility guys move the chains for a run team but won't put up big TDs game after game, different target, different result.

Agility WRs can be flat-out impressive.

Of course, speed can't be zero.

Aye, I assume with any well built player, your looking at the non-dominant stat being soft capped, so 48 agility on a speed WR, 48 speed on an agility WR, both with softcapped jumping/catching.

Originally posted by Mob-6
Originally posted by WiSeIVIaN

Originally posted by Mob-6


Speed receivers don't need agility, but agility receivers need speed. That should answer your question about the builds viability. If someone wants to show me a 3rd softcapped agility WR with 5 or more points in each of the last 3 speedster SA trees that utilize agility I would be curious see their production. I would expect those SAs to make the build for an agility receiver.

What on earth are you basing this argument on? Agility is VERY important to all WRs, speed or otherwise, and is usually the defining factor in getting open. If you want flames inconsistant WRs with 100 speed and 20 agility, be my guest, but if you want a good productive beastly WRs, I highly suggest 60 agility by level 32 or so...

I'm basing it on all the low agility/high speed builds people have posted and my own results compared to those of my teammates. Feel free to post builds of successful High agility receivers with low speed so I can see their production. Again, you bring up flames WR, with low agility and high speed and he has had some great games. Do you think a WR with 20 speed and 100 agility could have the same production as Flames'? Or is agility the limiting factor?

20 speed 100 agility is no more the awnser than 100 speed 20 agility buddy. Flames WRs are grossly inconsistant fwiw, and their high ypc, low catch numbers simply attest to the fact that without agility, the only chance they have to get open is on the deep ball after accelerating downfield for 20 yards.

Why the shit would any WR have 20 speed in the game of football? Beating someone on a cut would be irrelivent since they could easily catch back up to you.

High speed, good agility
http://goallineblitz.com/game/player.pl?player_id=46636

High speed, high agility (agility WR who tears it up dispite being constantly outleveled)
http://goallineblitz.com/game/player.pl?player_id=349269

Good speed, good agility
http://goallineblitz.com/game/player.pl?player_id=238321

And all these WRs coexisted on a team last year that ran the ball 40% of the time, for 3000+ total yards... Flames WRs would be way better if he'd stop overcapping speed and get agility to the first or second softcap, instead of trying to prove his stupid point that speed is awsome...

High speed, low agility is FAR from optimal, regardless of what you may have observed in a very limited sample. The builds of the above players will not be open, but please take my word that they're not out there with 20 agility, which in the game of football wouldn't make any sense...

I think WiSeIVIaN and many others hit the nail on the head with this one. Agility and possession receivers are successful but the assumption that possession =/= speed is wrong. I'm not saying speed needs to be the dominating stat but it has to be there at least a little bit. My WR had 75 agility and 68 speed with 7 in route run. I'm pretty sure he's a possession receiver and he performs like one. Most of his catches are 5-10 yards, and he gets open fairly consistently. Sometimes I wish he were a speed receiver so I could see more big plays but I'm happy with the build. At the same time though, some of you around here think speed receivers and possession receivers can't coexist on the same team. Last year we had 2 speed guys in the 1 and 2 spots with myself in the 3 spot. Let's just say all us receivers had good and balanced numbers and our QB's pass rating was 120.5. They do work if built right.

Originally posted by WiSeIVIaN
Originally posted by Mob-6

Originally posted by WiSeIVIaN


Originally posted by Mob-6



Speed receivers don't need agility, but agility receivers need speed. That should answer your question about the builds viability. If someone wants to show me a 3rd softcapped agility WR with 5 or more points in each of the last 3 speedster SA trees that utilize agility I would be curious see their production. I would expect those SAs to make the build for an agility receiver.

What on earth are you basing this argument on? Agility is VERY important to all WRs, speed or otherwise, and is usually the defining factor in getting open. If you want flames inconsistant WRs with 100 speed and 20 agility, be my guest, but if you want a good productive beastly WRs, I highly suggest 60 agility by level 32 or so...

I'm basing it on all the low agility/high speed builds people have posted and my own results compared to those of my teammates. Feel free to post builds of successful High agility receivers with low speed so I can see their production. Again, you bring up flames WR, with low agility and high speed and he has had some great games. Do you think a WR with 20 speed and 100 agility could have the same production as Flames'? Or is agility the limiting factor?

20 speed 100 agility is no more the awnser than 100 speed 20 agility buddy. Flames WRs are grossly inconsistant fwiw, and their high ypc, low catch numbers simply attest to the fact that without agility, the only chance they have to get open is on the deep ball after accelerating downfield for 20 yards.

Why the shit would any WR have 20 speed in the game of football? Beating someone on a cut would be irrelivent since they could easily catch back up to you.

High speed, good agility
http://goallineblitz.com/game/player.pl?player_id=46636

High speed, high agility (agility WR who tears it up dispite being constantly outleveled)
http://goallineblitz.com/game/player.pl?player_id=349269

Good speed, good agility
http://goallineblitz.com/game/player.pl?player_id=238321

And all these WRs coexisted on a team last year that ran the ball 40% of the time, for 3000+ total yards... Flames WRs would be way better if he'd stop overcapping speed and get agility to the first or second softcap, instead of trying to prove his stupid point that speed is awsome...

High speed, low agility is FAR from optimal, regardless of what you may have observed in a very limited sample. The builds of the above players will not be open, but please take my word that they're not out there with 20 agility, which in the game of football wouldn't make any sense...

Those production numbers look pretty much the same as Flames. If your going to compare 4 quarters to a $1 dollar bill, you shouldn't base your argument on which one is better based on their total value when those values are the same.

Flames has far fewer catches with more ypc. Not the same in any way.... Its like comparing 2 quarters to a $1 dollar bill....

Quiet game for the guy I'm following last night, 142 point blow out on a run team so no action for the receivers, 1 TD on 4 receptions.

It's like comparing consistency to a fluke. lol

Flames' WRs kinda suck, I'll be the first to say it.
They produce yards, yes, but not in any manner that you could plan around as an owner.

Agreed, as an owner, i'm happier with someone to throw to I know will hold on when the balls thrown to him. Added advantage of course being the QBs tend to be more accurate on shorter passes. Not sure what flames catch to drop ratio is like but assuming drops, and low QB completion rating would be an issue at times.

We had no WR with over 70 speed last season, and yet we put up consistant passing yardage, simply because someone always got open. If you can pick up 5 or 10 yds a play you'll win games. Our HB got only 18 passes last season, and a third of them were on a trick play we use. That's only a dozen or so dump passes for a season of games, and a lot of not having to check down by the QB.

Originally posted by TtD
Our HB got only 18 passes last season, and a third of them were on a trick play we use.

Sounds like a TE's job. :-p

Sometimes pays to have the TE draw off the LOLB and SS and sneak the HB underneath for the odd 10yds play. Isn't a regular feature but is nice when it works out.

As you say, consistancy.

10 reception game for only 71.5yds last night, 1TD, no drops, off only 10 passes in my direction. Not huge yards but not much gets away when it clicks.

Horrid game for the D tonight but the WR now seems to be coming into his own, 9 receptions, 0 drops, again short yards, 59.5yds total.

Third of season update.

6 games in, 39 receptions, 4 TD, 2 drops, 286.5yds.

As noted, yardage is an occassional issue as there is no deep threat from the WR, but he's proving a consistant open target for small gains.

No real highlight reel stuff but you get the occassional play where the CB is left in no mans land.
http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=152616&pbp_id=4143364