Warrior General Games

Can someone with some type of authority chime in here and at least let us know if we are wasting our breath or maybe something a bit more positive... either way it would just be nice to know that a thread with 200+ posts has at least been noticed

Originally posted by Cmfix64
Can someone with some type of authority chime in here and at least let us know if we are wasting our breath or maybe something a bit more positive... either way it would just be nice to know that a thread with 200+ posts has at least been noticed

I don't think we're wasting our breath. Good, solid, feasible ideas that stay at the top of the list tend to have good results on a long enough time frame. Of course, on a long enough time frame, the survival rate for everyone drops to zero.

epic imo +1

My other concern with this format is that it being a stamina based format (and we'd be kidding ourselves to say it isn't) it will have the reverse effect that the current GLB game has.

Current game == Speed + Agility
Ironman == Strength + Stamina (as Strength is the best way to reduce energy drain during a game - just ask linemen who rarely get in energy trouble even with 70-80 plays).

While people say the format would eliminate cookie-cutter builds, IMO it's just a paradigm shift - instead of chocolate chip (Speed/Agility) it's oatmeal-raisin (Strength/Stamina). If Speed makes Stamina drain more pronounced, people will gravitate away from that because in a system where they is virtually no substitution pattern to manage energy drain the whole key will be to get the biggest energy pool possible and the slowest drain on that pool to outlast the opposition.

It will be the "hare and turtle" approach, where the teams building on a foundation of Speed get an early head start - then collapse halfway through the game and get run by and over by the strength based team. What keeps that from happening right now in GLB is the fact that you can keep guys fresh through substitution - in Ironman that won't be the case. 11 players an 4 subs == an arterial wound with a tourniquet that wasn't applied properly - you still bleed to death pretty fast.

If people think they can just slap this Ironman format on top of the existing GLB model and it will take off - they are kidding themselves and not looking at it from a distance with an eye towards what the game currently suffers from - exploitation.

Again, I like the concept!!!!!!!], but like any idea in this game if it isn't looked at it from an exploitable view - a hasty implementation of the idea will be the death knell of that idea. All of these things need to be part of the discourse and hashed out - not simply be a "my idea is great - quit being a hater" response that is typical of these ventures.

So give them something else to exploit, then? I don't see what's wrong with that. If it piques the interest and makes us think a little more, I like it.

On the subject of cookie-cutters, I don't think they're a tremendous problem as long as there are enough shapes of cookie-cutters from which to choose!

You want people who are already involved in the game to try new things with more flex, right? Of course people's willingness to spend flex points on something always carries a certain degree of speculation, but we've already seen a lot of interest in this thread from high flex-payers and one can fairly reliably extrapolate that sentiment to the GLB population, right?

I think it would be really fun to do and I love it.

EDIT:
greengoose
[x] 7-day ban for playa-hatin'
imo

Not saying I don't want it implemented - but if all it amounts to is the same old game with the same old exploits then whats the point?

Might as well take an Edsel, give it a paint job and a fairing and kid myself that I have a racecar if thats the case.

Originally posted by greengoose
Not saying I don't want it implemented - but if all it amounts to is the same old game with the same old exploits then whats the point?

Might as well take an Edsel, give it a paint job and a fairing and kid myself that I have a racecar if thats the case.


You're talking about the first generation of players, and how the people who build for the long-term will be able to steamroll the people who build for the short term after a few seasons.

I think stamina will be important, and I think strength will be important, but so will those hard choices about things like choosing whether to build a CB/WR from a CB base or a WR base, what secondary position to give your LBs or TEs or HBs or DEs, what positions to make/recruit backups for. I don't think this will eliminate cookie-cutter builds for all positions in all cases, but I do think we'll see much more unique builds, much more emphasis on advanced equip and those secondary SAs that aren't on your usual SA chart.

The game is already set up to allow a format like this to work with only a change in roster size, imo. Could we make it better with special tweaks to the league format by reducing stamina drain and OOP penalties? I think the assumption is that we could, but that we don't actually KNOW, and asking for those things to start this league is almost a guarantee that it won't happen. That's why I'm willing to slap some paint on the Edsel, add a fairing and see if we can take it out on the racetrack.

Of course, you can argue back that the complete lack of interest or input thus far by admins means that it's never gonna happen anyway, and as it looks right now I might have to concede that point.

But I can't believe no admin has seen this thread, especially as it has grown and is now pushing 300 posts in just a short week or so since I first proposed it. Their lack of a response so far tells me one thing: if this idea (setting those roster limits) were impossible or a lot harder to implement than we think, I'm pretty sure someone would've said so by now. Perhaps we can take their silence as saying yes, this is possible, but we don't want to get your hopes up by saying anything right now until we've had a chance to think this idea over.

Originally posted by Ignatius J Reilly
Originally posted by Firenze

Originally posted by stnaigkroywen


epic imo +1





yup

btw.. the speed/agility argument is dumb... "yeah my player has 50 Str and 99 Stam, Speed of 10 tho... doesn't move, and can't turn worth a damn.... but he's in the whole game tho wooohooo"

steel city ironmen?

Ok guys, I'll give you a simple exploit that you can expect if you don't consider what I've been saying.

O-line == Strength, Stamina, HANDS (which increases the energy drain every time it fires)
FB == Strength, Stamina, HANDS at the beginning of the tree, which means no points are wasted to get to it.

Needless to say the FB is a cheap Power Back alternative to boot, so when he isn't doing his best vampire imitation he's TRUCKING YOUR ASS.

Now I ask you, who in their right mind is gonna make a defensive player on the front line when all they have to do is make any offensive blocker, crank HANDS and drain you like Dracula?

To implement Ironman it will need some adjustments, we simply can't graft this onto the current game and say "play ball".

Originally posted by TJ Spikes
Originally posted by Ignatius J Reilly

Originally posted by Firenze


Originally posted by stnaigkroywen



epic imo +1





yup

btw.. the speed/agility argument is dumb... "yeah my player has 50 Str and 99 Stam, Speed of 10 tho... doesn't move, and can't turn worth a damn.... but he's in the whole game tho wooohooo"

So how fast does a guy with 60 speed run with 10 energy?

Throw a G with both HANDS and ABSORB PAIN into the mix. Now he not only drains you at a higher rate, he reduces his own drain costs by blocking you.

Like it or not guys the current Stamina/Energy model is way too easy to exploit in an Ironman format. In fact your high speed WR/CB can be reduced to virtually no energy just by having to cover the opening kickoff then have a FB playing WR and running the ball continuously, constantly draining the shit out of him when he isn't pancaking him to begin with.

Yeah, if you want to take it to an extreme you make a bunch of FB's and place them all on the HB depth chart, taking turns pounding the rock when they aren't on the O-line or WR performing their Dracula imitations.

Would be interesting but That would also mean that they are playing offense, defense, and STs. STs alone takes a way a shitload of stamina. We are going to see our dots having heat stroke.