Originally posted by Bane
I have a question for you
Yes, yes he is.
I have a question for you
Yes, yes he is.
Forum > Goal Line Blitz > Bort - Supply and Demand Check Time
Originally posted by Corndog
If there was an insatiable demand for more dots, all of your arguments might be relevant.
The fact is that there's zero external demand and limited internal demand. You're paying premiums for what is essentially a niche product. It would be cool if that wasn't the case, but it is what it is.
You are missing the point.
Those demand levels are not - necessarily - stagnant.
If you charge less for the product, you should increase demand, both internally and externally.
The National Football League is not a niche product. So the potential for new customers is huge.
Drop the price so that it can be played for a reasonable price - and by played we mean a team of dots and the team more or less, one dot is less than worthless - and drop an ad in the right place or two and you reach a broader market.
Meanwhile locally, because I can't maintain a team of dots any more on my budget, I don't pay anything. Its no longer "worth it" to me to shell out three hundred a month or whatever it is exactly.
Now make that $30 a month and I'm back in.
Yeah but you will lose the $270 a month for all the guys paying that now who will keep playing you say?
Well - maybe. Maybe not. First off, maybe they shell out $30 a month for six teams instead of $300 for one. So $300 is now $180. Still not cool I agree. BUT what are you buying with that lost $120? How many more peeps will hang in at $30 that you are otherwise about to lose completely? Only takes four of them to make up the difference. Five and you just increased your gross by ten percent. Etc.
So you COULD increase your internal demand by lowering prices and make that profitable.
And more importantly, what are you going to do when the number of guys playing for $300 is so low that they stop having fun and continue to fall out of the game and ever more so rapidly?
You all have to make these decisions on your own and clearly know far more of the details than we.
But do try to grok the Supply and Demand dynamic while making that consideration.
If there was an insatiable demand for more dots, all of your arguments might be relevant.
The fact is that there's zero external demand and limited internal demand. You're paying premiums for what is essentially a niche product. It would be cool if that wasn't the case, but it is what it is.
You are missing the point.
Those demand levels are not - necessarily - stagnant.
If you charge less for the product, you should increase demand, both internally and externally.
The National Football League is not a niche product. So the potential for new customers is huge.
Drop the price so that it can be played for a reasonable price - and by played we mean a team of dots and the team more or less, one dot is less than worthless - and drop an ad in the right place or two and you reach a broader market.
Meanwhile locally, because I can't maintain a team of dots any more on my budget, I don't pay anything. Its no longer "worth it" to me to shell out three hundred a month or whatever it is exactly.
Now make that $30 a month and I'm back in.
Yeah but you will lose the $270 a month for all the guys paying that now who will keep playing you say?
Well - maybe. Maybe not. First off, maybe they shell out $30 a month for six teams instead of $300 for one. So $300 is now $180. Still not cool I agree. BUT what are you buying with that lost $120? How many more peeps will hang in at $30 that you are otherwise about to lose completely? Only takes four of them to make up the difference. Five and you just increased your gross by ten percent. Etc.
So you COULD increase your internal demand by lowering prices and make that profitable.
And more importantly, what are you going to do when the number of guys playing for $300 is so low that they stop having fun and continue to fall out of the game and ever more so rapidly?
You all have to make these decisions on your own and clearly know far more of the details than we.
But do try to grok the Supply and Demand dynamic while making that consideration.
Originally posted by Corndog
But I'm also not understanding this "huge upfront cost" argument. Up to nine dollars every two months is pretty cheap. You can get half a dozen players for less than most monthly MMOs cost.
But half a dozen players is not a game.
55 is.
More really, because of decline. To keep your team in play and your 55x2 or 3 dots including your up and coming minor leaguers, you need to spend some serious coin.
Yes it would be nice to have it be a cooperative thing with 55 dots from 55 players, or even ten. But as is, that isn't happening. It hasn't for some time.
So the question of what is a reasonable price is the cost of keeping a pro league team staffed over the long haul.
That is your real product, and that is the focus price.
Sure you can still have your free player to let newbies sniff the game.
Maybe even a tiered fee structure for that guy who just wants to build a half dozen dots but not coach, say at the normal $15 break. Maybe have a team itself run the same so those who want to do cooperatives can.
But the way the game thrives is making team ownership of a solo team an expense that you do not need to hide from your wife.
But I'm also not understanding this "huge upfront cost" argument. Up to nine dollars every two months is pretty cheap. You can get half a dozen players for less than most monthly MMOs cost.
But half a dozen players is not a game.
55 is.
More really, because of decline. To keep your team in play and your 55x2 or 3 dots including your up and coming minor leaguers, you need to spend some serious coin.
Yes it would be nice to have it be a cooperative thing with 55 dots from 55 players, or even ten. But as is, that isn't happening. It hasn't for some time.
So the question of what is a reasonable price is the cost of keeping a pro league team staffed over the long haul.
That is your real product, and that is the focus price.
Sure you can still have your free player to let newbies sniff the game.
Maybe even a tiered fee structure for that guy who just wants to build a half dozen dots but not coach, say at the normal $15 break. Maybe have a team itself run the same so those who want to do cooperatives can.
But the way the game thrives is making team ownership of a solo team an expense that you do not need to hide from your wife.
Originally posted by Corndog
So the cost isn't the issue as much as the fundamental concept of the game.
I think that point probably has some merits. It's probably why the market is so niche and getting new users is like extracting teeth from a goldfish.
As I suggested at some point, that can be addressed by giving players things to do every day and every minute of the day.
Training that gives a boost for just a day.
But have it be something you play, some sort of mini game, to train up a stat (like a throwing at targets game to gain a .01 temp boost to throwing for every level you gain in the mini game).
Something that seems worthwhile, but is not so overpowered it undermines less active agents. Or you could have a less fun point and click alternative that approximates the bonus, or has some flex cost (say hiring a trainer NPC, a piece of equipment).
Details not important but the idea is if you give an agent something to do whenever he logs in, then owning a dot just became more fun.
So the cost isn't the issue as much as the fundamental concept of the game.
I think that point probably has some merits. It's probably why the market is so niche and getting new users is like extracting teeth from a goldfish.
As I suggested at some point, that can be addressed by giving players things to do every day and every minute of the day.
Training that gives a boost for just a day.
But have it be something you play, some sort of mini game, to train up a stat (like a throwing at targets game to gain a .01 temp boost to throwing for every level you gain in the mini game).
Something that seems worthwhile, but is not so overpowered it undermines less active agents. Or you could have a less fun point and click alternative that approximates the bonus, or has some flex cost (say hiring a trainer NPC, a piece of equipment).
Details not important but the idea is if you give an agent something to do whenever he logs in, then owning a dot just became more fun.
ryan_grant-25
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Originally posted by bhall43
This game is never hitting its hayday again even if it offers everything for free.
This really validates your opinion
This game is never hitting its hayday again even if it offers everything for free.
This really validates your opinion
bhall43
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Originally posted by ryan_grant-25
This really validates your opinion
The validation is already there. It isn't even my opinion. Look around you.
This really validates your opinion
The validation is already there. It isn't even my opinion. Look around you.
Time Trial
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Originally posted by bhall43
jk the game has actually been named yesterday on his twitter!
Legions of the Endless, his Steam JRPG game.
https://twitter.com/wg_phancock/status/587012008479817728
So they took all of our ideas for new brawlers and put them in another game?
jk the game has actually been named yesterday on his twitter!
Legions of the Endless, his Steam JRPG game.
https://twitter.com/wg_phancock/status/587012008479817728
So they took all of our ideas for new brawlers and put them in another game?
Time Trial
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Originally posted by Dub J
Yeah, I've had... a billion 3-7 day bans. lol
Served concurrently thankfully.
Yeah, I've had... a billion 3-7 day bans. lol
Served concurrently thankfully.
Originally posted by Time Trial
So they took all of our ideas for new brawlers and put them in another game?
So they took all of our ideas for new brawlers and put them in another game?
Originally posted by Time Trial
So they took all of our ideas for new brawlers and put them in another game?
If you're implying you had a bunch of ideas not on our original list(s) of brawler classes... Even then, probably still 'no'.
The new game Bort's posting updates about is a new thing, not Brawler-related. 
So they took all of our ideas for new brawlers and put them in another game?
If you're implying you had a bunch of ideas not on our original list(s) of brawler classes... Even then, probably still 'no'.
The new game Bort's posting updates about is a new thing, not Brawler-related. Time Trial
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Originally posted by euchrid
If you're implying you had a bunch of ideas not on our original list(s) of brawler classes... Even then, probably still 'no'. The new game Bort's posting updates about is a new thing, not Brawler-related.
Of course I did. I even had fully fleshed out skill sets for the ones that I suggested.
And I KNOW this isn't for Brawlers. That's why I wrote " and put them in another game".
I will still play it though. I haven't been playing my steam games in awhile because I'm just under 100 hours into Tales of Vesperia.
If you're implying you had a bunch of ideas not on our original list(s) of brawler classes... Even then, probably still 'no'.
The new game Bort's posting updates about is a new thing, not Brawler-related. Of course I did. I even had fully fleshed out skill sets for the ones that I suggested.
And I KNOW this isn't for Brawlers. That's why I wrote " and put them in another game".
I will still play it though. I haven't been playing my steam games in awhile because I'm just under 100 hours into Tales of Vesperia.
Time Trial
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https://twitter.com/wg_phancock/status/587012008479817728
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How close am I?
Ninja
Steam Punk Javier Bardem from No Country for Old Men
Knight
Enchantress
Vampire
Noble
Caveman
General
Jester
Dragon Knight
Musketeer
Wrestler
Stone Golem
Lady Boxer?
The Sheriff
Wizard
Ranger
Commando
Cowardly Barbarian
Magneto merged with Thor
Monk
VooDoo
Dwarf or Viking
Mike Tyson in a Suit
Mike Tyson's Punch Out!
Angel
Davey Crocket
Bloodcromancer
Nurse
Spy
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