I personally liked S6 more then S7 for the sim.
Sik Wit It
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Originally posted by jrry32
Originally posted by jfbueno
I personally liked S6 more then S7 for the sim.
Same.
Originally posted by jfbueno
I personally liked S6 more then S7 for the sim.
Same.
Doomsday
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Originally posted by jfbueno
I personally liked S6 more then S7 for the sim.
Same here. I liked season 7 better than 8 though.
BORT! Give us season 6 back!!!
I personally liked S6 more then S7 for the sim.
Same here. I liked season 7 better than 8 though.
BORT! Give us season 6 back!!!
islander1
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I'd personally rather see the sim continue to develop on the realism track. Screw the stupi d stats of previous seasons.
I just want running in general fine tuned down mildly, so both running and passing are plausible.
I actually like most aspects of the sim now. Just one aspect is beyond horrible.
I just want running in general fine tuned down mildly, so both running and passing are plausible.
I actually like most aspects of the sim now. Just one aspect is beyond horrible.
Last edited Mar 21, 2009 13:30:50
The Strategy Expert
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We are just too far from realism though on sooo many levels, not just sim code, but play options and clock options and injuries and penalties and a gazillion other things. And the total number of people that spend money on this game can have more happy people when they see their own individual players making big plays and getting more stats, it will end up compensating for some of those people that aren't happy.
Take any player that is getting nothing for stats, and that player probably has complaints with the sim and would prefer a better overall sim and realistic sim too, but if you shower him with some statistical candy, he might have something to tide him over while he waits, hence he won't retire his player next year, but instead he will stay and boost and use up more flex and buy more flex, cause now he is curious to see what happens with things, now that he sees bigger numbers being sent his way. A few of those guys will stick around and fire one more bullet of flex just to see, they won't be able to resist.
And then from the owner perspective, just take me for example, I think the sim is pretty weak right now, but I'm still not going to leave the game over it cause I expect it to get better. But while things dont' work perfectly right now, I think it would be more fun and interesting and exciting to do it this way as well, so I think overall more owners would end up appreciating a shift like this than to have to endure some of these painful issues that need fixing. And with Bort doing a new State of the Game Address, he could make it very clear that it is a temporary change until the background testing is fully functional with most of the mistakes fixed which could be as soon as next season or so.
The most key point is that there currently exists SOME stream of players and owners that are going to be stopping their investments, so something needs to be done to stop them from leaving without opening up a new hole for another leak. And not to mention it wouldn't hurt to start the ball rolling on bringing in a new stream of incoming water, in preparation for the other games that come out in 6 months and try to break open more holes and spring much bigger leaks. The foundation needs to fortified big-time but it also needs to be bulked up.
Take any player that is getting nothing for stats, and that player probably has complaints with the sim and would prefer a better overall sim and realistic sim too, but if you shower him with some statistical candy, he might have something to tide him over while he waits, hence he won't retire his player next year, but instead he will stay and boost and use up more flex and buy more flex, cause now he is curious to see what happens with things, now that he sees bigger numbers being sent his way. A few of those guys will stick around and fire one more bullet of flex just to see, they won't be able to resist.
And then from the owner perspective, just take me for example, I think the sim is pretty weak right now, but I'm still not going to leave the game over it cause I expect it to get better. But while things dont' work perfectly right now, I think it would be more fun and interesting and exciting to do it this way as well, so I think overall more owners would end up appreciating a shift like this than to have to endure some of these painful issues that need fixing. And with Bort doing a new State of the Game Address, he could make it very clear that it is a temporary change until the background testing is fully functional with most of the mistakes fixed which could be as soon as next season or so.
The most key point is that there currently exists SOME stream of players and owners that are going to be stopping their investments, so something needs to be done to stop them from leaving without opening up a new hole for another leak. And not to mention it wouldn't hurt to start the ball rolling on bringing in a new stream of incoming water, in preparation for the other games that come out in 6 months and try to break open more holes and spring much bigger leaks. The foundation needs to fortified big-time but it also needs to be bulked up.
Procrustes
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i tried explaining this to r8 and failed, so maybe i'll try again here.
Originally posted by Catullus 16
there seems to be an irresolvable conflict between bort's drive towards more realistic stats (dependent on actual players) and his drive towards more realistic builds (by adjusting the sim's behavior towards prototypical/idealized players).
and this isn't even a stick+carrot situation... it's an irresolvable conflict unless everyone adopts those idealized builds. otherwise, we'll continue to be stuck in counter-nerf mode, testing against players that don't actually exist.Originally posted by Catullus 16
obviously, a sim that only entertains 14 attributes is not going to tap into the complexity of real football... but that's not my complaint. i was just saying that not only is bort pursuing two orthogonal (or even oppositional) goals, but the institution of the test server has actually accelerated/widened that gap. i'm personally preparing for more seesaws and counter-nerfs with the sim... not less.
that's obviously in reference to the test server, but it also extends to how bort has traditionally tried to balance the game. from a user's perspective, it feels like he's chased moving averages to the point that he coded himself into a corner and now we never know which band-aid is going to blow off the sim next. and as player growth slows, the variety of builds tend to decrease (especially as ineffective builds are retired), which serves as a multiplier effect for exploits/nerfs -- what changes used to only affect a minority of players at a given position now tend to effect a supermajority.
it seems paradoxical, but if bort were to leave the sim (even the broken season 8 version) completely alone for a season, build variety would rebound. from that point, he could once again start pushing towards realism... but slowly this time, and with enough lag between the (published) changes to allow build variety to recover.
Originally posted by Catullus 16
there seems to be an irresolvable conflict between bort's drive towards more realistic stats (dependent on actual players) and his drive towards more realistic builds (by adjusting the sim's behavior towards prototypical/idealized players).
and this isn't even a stick+carrot situation... it's an irresolvable conflict unless everyone adopts those idealized builds. otherwise, we'll continue to be stuck in counter-nerf mode, testing against players that don't actually exist.Originally posted by Catullus 16
obviously, a sim that only entertains 14 attributes is not going to tap into the complexity of real football... but that's not my complaint. i was just saying that not only is bort pursuing two orthogonal (or even oppositional) goals, but the institution of the test server has actually accelerated/widened that gap. i'm personally preparing for more seesaws and counter-nerfs with the sim... not less.
that's obviously in reference to the test server, but it also extends to how bort has traditionally tried to balance the game. from a user's perspective, it feels like he's chased moving averages to the point that he coded himself into a corner and now we never know which band-aid is going to blow off the sim next. and as player growth slows, the variety of builds tend to decrease (especially as ineffective builds are retired), which serves as a multiplier effect for exploits/nerfs -- what changes used to only affect a minority of players at a given position now tend to effect a supermajority.
it seems paradoxical, but if bort were to leave the sim (even the broken season 8 version) completely alone for a season, build variety would rebound. from that point, he could once again start pushing towards realism... but slowly this time, and with enough lag between the (published) changes to allow build variety to recover.
seanb1979
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Originally posted by Catullus 16
i tried explaining this to r8 and failed, so maybe i'll try again here.
Originally posted by Catullus 16
there seems to be an irresolvable conflict between bort's drive towards more realistic stats (dependent on actual players) and his drive towards more realistic builds (by adjusting the sim's behavior towards prototypical/idealized players).
and this isn't even a stick+carrot situation... it's an irresolvable conflict unless everyone adopts those idealized builds. otherwise, we'll continue to be stuck in counter-nerf mode, testing against players that don't actually exist.Originally posted by Catullus 16
obviously, a sim that only entertains 14 attributes is not going to tap into the complexity of real football... but that's not my complaint. i was just saying that not only is bort pursuing two orthogonal (or even oppositional) goals, but the institution of the test server has actually accelerated/widened that gap. i'm personally preparing for more seesaws and counter-nerfs with the sim... not less.
that's obviously in reference to the test server, but it also extends to how bort has traditionally tried to balance the game. from a user's perspective, it feels like he's chased moving averages to the point that he coded himself into a corner and now we never know which band-aid is going to blow off the sim next. and as player growth slows, the variety of builds tend to decrease (especially as ineffective builds are retired), which serves as a multiplier effect for exploits/nerfs -- what changes used to only affect a minority of players at a given position now tend to effect a supermajority.
it seems paradoxical, but if bort were to leave the sim (even the broken season 8 version) completely alone for a season, build variety would rebound. from that point, he could once again start pushing towards realism... but slowly this time, and with enough lag between the (published) changes to allow build variety to recover.
+1
The sim needs to tone down the power running a bit, but not much. A stable sim would let player builds adjust, and find what works best, and be confident it would keep working well into the future.
Drastic sim changes just make people feel like they're back-pedaling with builds and always trying to play catch up, and forcing retirement with others.
i tried explaining this to r8 and failed, so maybe i'll try again here.
Originally posted by Catullus 16
there seems to be an irresolvable conflict between bort's drive towards more realistic stats (dependent on actual players) and his drive towards more realistic builds (by adjusting the sim's behavior towards prototypical/idealized players).
and this isn't even a stick+carrot situation... it's an irresolvable conflict unless everyone adopts those idealized builds. otherwise, we'll continue to be stuck in counter-nerf mode, testing against players that don't actually exist.Originally posted by Catullus 16
obviously, a sim that only entertains 14 attributes is not going to tap into the complexity of real football... but that's not my complaint. i was just saying that not only is bort pursuing two orthogonal (or even oppositional) goals, but the institution of the test server has actually accelerated/widened that gap. i'm personally preparing for more seesaws and counter-nerfs with the sim... not less.
that's obviously in reference to the test server, but it also extends to how bort has traditionally tried to balance the game. from a user's perspective, it feels like he's chased moving averages to the point that he coded himself into a corner and now we never know which band-aid is going to blow off the sim next. and as player growth slows, the variety of builds tend to decrease (especially as ineffective builds are retired), which serves as a multiplier effect for exploits/nerfs -- what changes used to only affect a minority of players at a given position now tend to effect a supermajority.
it seems paradoxical, but if bort were to leave the sim (even the broken season 8 version) completely alone for a season, build variety would rebound. from that point, he could once again start pushing towards realism... but slowly this time, and with enough lag between the (published) changes to allow build variety to recover.
+1
The sim needs to tone down the power running a bit, but not much. A stable sim would let player builds adjust, and find what works best, and be confident it would keep working well into the future.
Drastic sim changes just make people feel like they're back-pedaling with builds and always trying to play catch up, and forcing retirement with others.
islander1
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Originally posted by lawdawg95
Guess they liked the building after all?
would be cool if so!
Guess they liked the building after all?
would be cool if so!
Being that they have 7 men on their roster, I don't think so. Looks like the lolEast still manages find a way to pad their stats with a CPU team. 
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