Warrior General Games

Originally posted by Apallyon
Originally posted by spartan822

The customer is not always right.

Utter and TOTAL FAIL.... having been in business (successfully, might I add)... for a long time.... if anybody is stupid enough to believe the above you will never succeed...

The Customer is everything in a business... nothing else matters.... you may not always want to cater to a customer, but you always, and i mean ALWAYS, find a way to placate them, and never prove them "wrong"


Actually that is a very narrow POV. If the customer in question is costing you more money to placate than they would bring in with hand-holding and customer service excellence than it is better to tell them to STFU and go somewhere else. Some customers are never going to be placated and you need to make a cost/benefit analysis to decide when to send them elsewhere and spend your time catering to the people who are rational enough to deserve customer service.

Originally posted by yello1
Originally posted by spartan822

The customer is not always right.

He is for the businesses that do not have a monopoly and wish to stay in business.

And, again, an undo button has been around nearly as long as consumer software.

And that is true for a reason.

I am not asking Bort to blow me FFS, I am asking for something that is such a common computer feature that if you say Control Z to someone in western civilization they will know what you mean.

Consumer software needs an undo button because the purpose of it is to facilitate the user to be able to make changes to the files you are working on. They are an invaluable asset in those programs.

You are asking for mulligans in a game that costs money to play. The fact is that some of the user base making mistakes is what makes the elite dots elite. Like in any game, the people who are paying the closest attention have the best shot at winning. Not guaranteed success because there is a random element to the game but those who meticulously plan should have a marked advantage in a game like this. You don't see the NFL giving teams another chance at scoring on 5th down because they made a mistake on 4th down. You don't see undo buttons in tournament chess or even Scrabble.

If you have so many dots that you cannot help but screw some of them up maybe it might behoove you to have fewer dots and pay more attention to them than to demand handouts from the admins to fix your mistakes.

Originally posted by merenoise


what is wrong with a limited use undo button? this is very doable without being exploitable, it can be limited by scenario and a plethora of other ways. granted you may not "need" it, but you are not everyone.

Originally posted by happylittletrees
Originally posted by merenoise



what is wrong with a limited use undo button? this is very doable without being exploitable, it can be limited by scenario and a plethora of other ways. granted you may not "need" it, but you are not everyone.

It is less about me needing it and more about me not wanting people who make mistakes in their builds getting a bail-out. Since you know, I actually pay attention to my dots and make sure that I train them the way I want. Why should my time working on my dots be devalued by someone who was "tired" or "high" or "didn't give a fuck" getting a free chance to catch up?

If money wasn't involved and we were playing for shits and giggles it wouldn't really matter. But the truth of it is that if you put in an undo button you are basically giving the finger to everyone who didn't make a stupid mistake. There isn't so much build diversity in this game that we should be coddling users with options like an undo button. The dots at the top get there by spending quite a bit of time in planning and execution. Why penalize the people who spend that time to benefit people who make mistakes?

Originally posted by yello1
Yeah, you are right. Word should have the CTRL Z feature removed by force of law, those pansies at Microsoft are making us all weak and uncompetitive.
It's been a couple of hours since I've used Word, but I'm pretty sure it doesn't give me a pop-up window that says "Are you sure you want to do this?" every time I type a character. I'm also pretty sure that if I save a file, close it, then re-open it, the CTRL-Z combo isn't going to get me anywhere. So, the analogy breaks down, but I appreciate the effort to advance the conversation by proposing one.

Originally posted by merenoise
Allowing the undo button for people who aren't paying attention or make a dumb mistake devalues the time spent on not screwing up by players who didn't make those errors. Pay more attention and it will happen less often.
Most of the best games have a controlled environment where mistakes hurt you. This game is no different.
I agree with spartan822 -- this sums it up perfectly.

Originally posted by merenoise
It is less about me needing it and more about me not wanting people who make mistakes in their builds getting a bail-out. Since you know, I actually pay attention to my dots and make sure that I train them the way I want. Why should my time working on my dots be devalued by someone who was "tired" or "high" or "didn't give a fuck" getting a free chance to catch up?

If money wasn't involved and we were playing for shits and giggles it wouldn't really matter. But the truth of it is that if you put in an undo button you are basically giving the finger to everyone who didn't make a stupid mistake. There isn't so much build diversity in this game that we should be coddling users with options like an undo button. The dots at the top get there by spending quite a bit of time in planning and execution. Why penalize the people who spend that time to benefit people who make mistakes?

it can be limited in several ways, it doesn't have to be used in the manner the op states as an example. also spending money is voluntary for this game so I don't buy that line of reasoning either. all kinds of things can have an undo button on it that don't negatively affect the game. it's not like re-specing or anything like that.

Originally posted by happylittletrees
it can be limited in several ways, it doesn't have to be used in the manner the op states as an example. also spending money is voluntary for this game so I don't buy that line of reasoning either. all kinds of things can have an undo button on it that don't negatively affect the game. it's not like re-specing or anything like that.

I understand why you would be concerned with your cadre of players.

Bottom line please re-read over and over until you understand: Mistakes in building are the difference between the best build in the game and a mediocre one. Why should we reward people who aren't prepared to make the sacrifices in time and attention that it requires to make an elite dot?

Originally posted by merenoise
I understand why you would be concerned with your cadre of players.

Bottom line please re-read over and over until you understand: Mistakes in building are the difference between the best build in the game and a mediocre one. Why should we reward people who aren't prepared to make the sacrifices in time and attention that it requires to make an elite dot?

Originally posted by happylittletrees
it can be limited in several ways, it doesn't have to be used in the manner the op states as an example. also spending money is voluntary for this game so I don't buy that line of reasoning either. all kinds of things can have an undo button on it that don't negatively affect the game. it's not like re-specing or anything like that.

perhaps you should be the one to read over and over until you understand hmmm?

Mere... 2 things

1) about Narrow-mindedness about customers - cost-to-serve analysis is for large corporations who can afford to tell people to STFU... for anyone else thats business suicide.. and my personal view is that I have not met the customer that I would ever have to do that too... I've offered other solutions when I cant facilitate their exact request (ie refunds) but again... anyone that spends money with you, is gold.. and if they are a pain.. raise the price to accomodate your price to serve

As for this game where the options are endless (online games).... it doesnt really have the STFU button option... they tried it, hence why I would put our active agents pool has been limited by 1/2 since around season 14.....

2) What the HELL is you avater... lol.. is it a bloody head wound on a green haired punk?...

Originally posted by merenoise
I understand why you would be concerned with your cadre of players.

Bottom line please re-read over and over until you understand: Mistakes in building are the difference between the best build in the game and a mediocre one. Why should we reward people who aren't prepared to make the sacrifices in time and attention that it requires to make an elite dot?



My thoughts exactly....

A man that starts out full throttle, has a greater chance of stalling.

Originally posted by ron2288


what are you facepalming? there are a multitude of non-build related situations on this game that could use an undo button. that was my point, I even bolded it to show that that was exactly my point. merenoise kept going on about builds like I didn't say there were a myriad of situations that could use an undo button.

Look at the end of the day there is merit in this suggestion..

Not for ALL places but we've come to the conclusion that for some there are...

Now I know for a fact that some of you have written scripts/ etc for your training programs and are "bott"ing players...

some people dont have that technical know-how, and are just guys who have jobs, wives, kids and other committments..

This game should also not be about rewarding someone because they happen to have no life...

No offence.. but you can see what I mean...

The dots will always be different no matter what.. no undo button will change that....


So I repeat.. what is it that the guys opposed to it are actually opposed too...?

Originally posted by Tyranus
A man that starts out full throttle, has a greater chance of stalling.

And a man who walks through Airport Turnstile Sideways is always going to Bangkok....

Originally posted by Apallyon
Mere... 2 things

1) about Narrow-mindedness about customers - cost-to-serve analysis is for large corporations who can afford to tell people to STFU... for anyone else thats business suicide.. and my personal view is that I have not met the customer that I would ever have to do that too... I've offered other solutions when I cant facilitate their exact request (ie refunds) but again... anyone that spends money with you, is gold.. and if they are a pain.. raise the price to accomodate your price to serve

As for this game where the options are endless (online games).... it doesnt really have the STFU button option... they tried it, hence why I would put our active agents pool has been limited by 1/2 since around season 14.....

2) What the HELL is you avater... lol.. is it a bloody head wound on a green haired punk?...

I've worked as a manager for customer service call centers and have managed a handful of different bars. As a person who performs customer service on a daily basis I can guarantee you that there are times when you simply cannot make the customer happy and it is better for the business to end the customer's relationship with the business rather than let them disrupt the business. This applies to small businesses as much as it does large businesses since there is a small but really loud group of people in this world who love nothing more than causing a scene over even the slightest perceived failure of the business. Think of the crazy guy at the airport yelling at the counter person. Even if he is right, security and/or the police are going to drag him away.

My avatar is from a fun night I had in Key West 13 years ago during Fantasy Fest. I was so drunk I fell down while play fighting with a buddy and cracked open my head but was so gone I didn't believe my buddies when they told me I was bleeding so they took a picture.

Pretty sure if I had a bad customer service experience during that night that I would have been one of those guys you just laugh at as you kick them the hell out of your business, usually to the applause of the other customers.

Originally posted by happylittletrees


what are you facepalming? there are a multitude of non-build related situations on this game that could use an undo button. that was my point, I even bolded it to show that that was exactly my point. merenoise kept going on about builds like I didn't say there were a myriad of situations that could use an undo button.

Where do you see a need for them? I am responding to the OP's suggestion which was build related, if you have some legitimate place where you think an undo button would be helpful you should probably make your own suggestion for it.

I could see an undo button under the post button on the forums for a few users being useful but outside that there are already systems in place to avoid mistakes throughout the game. That funny little box that pops up asking you "Are you sure you want to do that?" already accomplishes what you are looking for. If you are dense enough to still make the mistake that is user error, not the fault of a lack of effort on GLB's part and your builds should be punished for it. Build a few dots and you will see exactly how hard they make it to screw them up if you are paying attention.