Warrior General Games

Originally posted by turnerhero
Valid reason to Bort and DD may be defined differently than it is to you, or someone else...

The fact is, they can say tomorrow that everyone is required to upload a headshot of themselves because Bort no longer will tolerate long hair, and anyone with long hair in their picture will be automatically perma-banned from the game forever.

They will have mass quantities of people quit, leave, and otherwise bitch, but that doesn't mean they have to explain themselves.

Good lord, you're stupid.

Originally posted by Jose Bagg


A great thought. I would counter that those people who don't want to make trouble won't. Those that do want to make trouble will. Whether you ban someone or not will not deter future bad behavior of those with ill wills. If you think a player should not be allowed in the public forums for the good of the public, then so be it. Allowing them to post in a private forum does not change the fact that they cannot affect the public well being.

That's a slippery slope. That's like saying laws don't deter some people. Ever thought about stealing? I imagine you have, but didn't due to the fact it was against the law(you may have stolen something sometime, but that doesn't mean you do EVERYtime) Bans do help keep SOME people from breaking rules, or rules would not be needed.

It may not extend to perma-banned people who obviously are kept from the public forever. However temp-banned people should not be allowed to post in Private Forums because then it removes the discouragement from disrupting public boards due to the fact you can continue to post in private forums.

Originally posted by Deathblade
Originally posted by Azure Dreams


Having your access to public forums revoked is a punishment. In fact, I'd wager that it's a more fitting punishment.

Possibly. That would be a valid argument.

However, I think that the more harsher the punishment is, the less likely people are going to willingly break rules. For example, look at the deal with multi accounts. Nothing is ever done...the multi account is banned but the main account is untouched, regardless of them breaking the multi-account rule, and probably breaking many rules with the multi account. Do people fear making multis to spam crap? Nope. If the main accounts were banned for a month, would people think twice before making multis to spam? I'd say it is pretty likely.

Yeah, and the death penalty has so put an end to murder. Punishment is just not a very effective deterrent against future crime. In fact, it takes a certain level of immaturity to base your decisions on what the punishment will be. Most people will eventually mature to the point where they do what is right because they want to do right and not because they fear the punishment of doing wrong. For those that haven't matured, keeping them out of the way of the public forum is all any of the well behaved users would ever ask for.

Ask yourself this, why do you care whether or not I get to invite a banned user to my private forum?
Do you get some enjoyment out of another users suffering?
Allowing my friends to post in my private forum does not hurt you.

(please don't pick on the word "my". What else would I call it. It is a private forum that I paid to use, but writing my is only two letters and I think we can all agree on what I mean by it.)

Originally posted by Azure Dreams
Originally posted by turnerhero

Valid reason to Bort and DD may be defined differently than it is to you, or someone else...

The fact is, they can say tomorrow that everyone is required to upload a headshot of themselves because Bort no longer will tolerate long hair, and anyone with long hair in their picture will be automatically perma-banned from the game forever.

They will have mass quantities of people quit, leave, and otherwise bitch, but that doesn't mean they have to explain themselves.

Good lord, you're stupid.

No, I'm a realist.

Originally posted by Azure Dreams

Now, this one is a poor analogy.

1. Both accounts in a multi-account situation are involved. Punishing both isn't unreasonable as such, by the same logic as the forum example.

2. Regardless of the above, the multi issue actually breaks the law set forth to steal money from Bort. Posting in a private forum does no such thing.

3. Actually, it isn't uncommon for multi-account-users to be banned altogether. They just never bother to put any serious effort into locating them.

It wasn't even meant to be an analogy

Originally posted by WearyWarrior
Originally posted by Azure Dreams

Originally posted by WearyWarrior


Originally posted by Azure Dreams



Despite the fact taht Deathblade's analogy in no way failed, I sitll +1 this thread. If someone has done something bad enough to be kicked out of the game, then they're gone. If they're still allowed to participate int he game and have just been banned (regardless of length of time) from the forum, then I support their ability to post in private forums.

My feeling is regardless of but heavily backed by the fact that bans are very subjective and not always warranted.

lol i appreciate the +1, but if you think dblade's analogy didnt fail you just said that you would be mad at the internet company for turning off someones internet for not paying the bills, because they couldn't access your forum. See how little sense that makes when its not even backed up by forum rules? You know your course of action will result in loss of internet when you fail to pay your bills at least. its a direct 1:1 correlation. But expecting a ban for actions in public forums to result in loss of access to premium, private forums which a moderator has no power in doesnt really make sense.

/me is sad you brought up dblade's analogy.

The differences mainly sit in the fact that 1) the internet company doesn't run these forums as well and 2) paying your bill or noot is much more cut and dry than whether you deserve to be banned.

Other than that, it's a valid comparison. Your argument against it is that you don't expect to lose private forum access when you break the rules and get banned. Ignoring the fact that this shows ignorance on your part and the fact that you should probably know the situation before you get yourself into it, the problem there is if that is your complain, then adding to the forum rules or any other announcement a note that says "If you get a forum ban then it extends to private forums" would resolve your issue just as well as changing the fact of whether you get banned from private forums. However, correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think that would sate your desire.



If that was their decision I would have to be satisfied i suppose. I have 2 grounds to stand on in my suggestion I feel.

A) I paid for the forum, and as such i should be permitted to select who may use it. They cannot use it to disrupt the general user base, so the effect of their forum suspension is retained.

B) Rules covering this are absent from the Forum Rules. Consistency with the rest of their policy of allowing access to ones own private forums and team forums which i still maintain are essentially private forums given to an owner, they should be able to use Private Forums of other users.

An addition to the rules would remove a good bit of my stance making my chances of getting a change in the way things are a good bit tougher on me.

I wont deny that my original complaint that I was being punished was a little shoddy but no more so than the counter analogy really. Simply by the fact that an analogy should work 1:1 and here you are basically siding with my idea, yet i would guess you still would find getting angry with the ISP pretty silly.

I agree completely with A. I feel that B is a weak-ass argument.

And yes, the counter-analogy was shoddy. But it was also valid. And did a reasonably good job of showing the shoddiness of the original point.

Also: Yes, I'm in agreement with your suggestion here. However-- and this is true of me always-- i don't pick a side. I say what I think is correct. And while I agree with your suggestion that doesn't mean I will back anything you say here.

Furthermore, I'm a very big stickler for proper argument tactic and proper communication. Misinterpretation bothers me. It isn't uncommon for me to pop into threads and spend time without even giving my own opinion but rather just clarifying one (or both) side to the other because I can see that there is miscommunication and ineffective debate.

Originally posted by JDaniels127
Originally posted by Jose Bagg



A great thought. I would counter that those people who don't want to make trouble won't. Those that do want to make trouble will. Whether you ban someone or not will not deter future bad behavior of those with ill wills. If you think a player should not be allowed in the public forums for the good of the public, then so be it. Allowing them to post in a private forum does not change the fact that they cannot affect the public well being.

That's a slippery slope. That's like saying laws don't deter some people. Ever thought about stealing? I imagine you have, but didn't due to the fact it was against the law(you may have stolen something sometime, but that doesn't mean you do EVERYtime) Bans do help keep SOME people from breaking rules, or rules would not be needed.

It may not extend to perma-banned people who obviously are kept from the public forever. However temp-banned people should not be allowed to post in Private Forums because then it removes the discouragement from disrupting public boards due to the fact you can continue to post in private forums.

To be honest, I have thought about stealing. When I was a child, I chose not to because it was agaisnt the rules and I didn't want to get in trouble. Now, as an adult, I choose not to because it is the right thing to do and I don't want to hurt another person by taking their things. The punishment isn't even a factor in my decision.

Originally posted by turnerhero
Originally posted by Azure Dreams

Originally posted by turnerhero


Valid reason to Bort and DD may be defined differently than it is to you, or someone else...

The fact is, they can say tomorrow that everyone is required to upload a headshot of themselves because Bort no longer will tolerate long hair, and anyone with long hair in their picture will be automatically perma-banned from the game forever.

They will have mass quantities of people quit, leave, and otherwise bitch, but that doesn't mean they have to explain themselves.

Good lord, you're stupid.

No, I'm a realist.

Maybe, maybe not, but wholly irrelevant.. You seem completely unable to comprehend what is being said to you.

Originally posted by Deathblade
Originally posted by Azure Dreams


Now, this one is a poor analogy.

1. Both accounts in a multi-account situation are involved. Punishing both isn't unreasonable as such, by the same logic as the forum example.

2. Regardless of the above, the multi issue actually breaks the law set forth to steal money from Bort. Posting in a private forum does no such thing.

3. Actually, it isn't uncommon for multi-account-users to be banned altogether. They just never bother to put any serious effort into locating them.

It wasn't even meant to be an analogy

Call it an example then. It's still not completely correlative.

Originally posted by Jose Bagg
The punishment isn't even a factor in my decision.

I'm gonna go ahead and call bullshit on this one...if it wasn't against the law and you'd have to serve some jail time at the least, it'd probably also not be considered morally 'wrong' at that moment, and you'd probably take whatever the hell you wanted.

You're getting into the philosophy of theft here, and as I enjoy philosophy, I'd gladly discuss it with you, but I think you'll find that you'd run face first into human nature and lose the debate...

No he won't. Nor will you (unless you do a shitty job of arguing, which seems possible given your failure at it so far in this thread)

Nothing can be proven either way there so nothing will be accomplished.

(that said, I, to a degree, would side with what I surmise to be your stance on the human nature issue)

I would note, however, that the argument- if it takes place- should do so elsewhere.

Originally posted by Jose Bagg


To be honest, I have thought about stealing. When I was a child, I chose not to because it was agaisnt the rules and I didn't want to get in trouble. Now, as an adult, I choose not to because it is the right thing to do and I don't want to hurt another person by taking their things. The punishment isn't even a factor in my decision.

Many people never make it to that latter stage of cognitive development.

In psychology there are several stages which describe EXACTLY what we're talking about.

Some people get to the point in cognitive thought in which they base their decision on strictly MORAL principles (i.e. not taking someones stuff as to not hurt them)

However, many people never make it to that stage. Most people make it to a lower stage which is based on the Action-Reaction principles (i.e. Not stealing due to punishment)

Which is why these rules are needed.

College has paid off FINALLY! haha

Well, nothing can be proven, that's why it's called philosophy...you think about things you don't understand and have no real truth about, to attempt to come to some kind of conclusion about whatever it may be...

frankly, i see a lot of people in here that don't know what an analogy technically is.

also... i think those supporting the current policy are going to be hard-pressed promoting any logic beyond "because i said so". but similarly, those against the current policy are going to be hard-pressed to offer anything more than their version of fair play... which then gets back to why certain people were perma-banned, which is what this whole discussion is really about, right?

i hate proxy arguments.