Warrior General Games

Originally posted by jrry32
I mean the whole argument is a bit crazy. When you only consider 5-10 schools out of 200+ schools that have had QBs drafted, of course they won't be in the majority.

heh. do it tho.

USC
Sanchez/Leinart/Palmer
FLorida
Teebow/Grossman
UT
V young
Oklahoma
Bradford
Ohio state sucks
LSU
Jamarcus Russel
Notre Dame
Quinn


That is 7 of the top 10 ish schools who are considered power houses.. 9 qbs that I can think of fast. How many qbs have even been drafted in the 1st rd the last 10 yrs?

Let me annihilate you one point at a time.

Originally posted by jrry32
I lol'd, ITS you are a moron. If I jumped on the bandwagon, I would have jumped off when the Rams started sucking. As for Carr, he was drafted by an expansion team. The Rams in the last 3 years have signed two highly sought after interior OLs in FA, drafted a LT #2 overall and drafted a RT #33 overall. Also funny that you call Bradford brittle, Drew Brees had a more severe shoulder injury and yet he's been just fine. Bradford started every other game in college except for the games he missed with the shoulder injury. I think Bradford will be ok.

1) You are wrong. Bradford saw pressure and stepped up big time in games where he played teams of equal talent. As for QBs from Powerhouse programs not working out, care to explain Peyton Manning, Carson Palmer, Tom Brady and Aaron Rodgers becoming great QBs? What about Bart Starr and Joe Namath from Bama? Joe Montana from Notre Dame? Jim Kelly at Miami? Dan Marino at Pittsburgh?

NFL QBs are coming out of smaller programs, or programs where they have to face adversity. Do you homework. Do yourself a favor, look at the starting QBs in the NFL. Then report back. And fwiw, Brady didn't even start, and Cal is hardly a powerhouse.


2) ITS don't discuss things you are ignorant about. Bradford played in a system at OU that was a hybrid spread/Pro Style system. He took probably 30-50% of his snaps per game under center, ran a lot of playaction passes and was quite successful passing out of Pro Style formations. And if you care to read Bolick's post, you are wrong but just judging by the ignorance in that first sentence, you didn't watch Bradford in college so you have no clue what he did.

OU plays a spread offense, and Bradford typically only had to make 1 maybe 2 reads. He was not required to read defenses at the LOS. If you new anything at all you would know this to be true. Spread offense QB's don't translate.

3) Matt Ryan wasn't even the #1 overall pick. You are judging AFTER the season and Matt Ryan was incredibly overrated in that season. He walked into the perfect role kind of like Roethlisberger. Bradford as a prospect is better than Ryan as a prospect.

I know he wasn't #1. #1 doesn't have jack shit to do with being great in the NFL. I was saying..... he was the most Pro Ready. He started 4 years at BC, and played in a Pro Style offense. Suck it, you are wrong, in saying Bradford was the most Pro Ready since Manning

4) You mean a QB when he's getting the play is looking at the coach and not the defense. OMG. What you didn't know is that Bradford did have hot routes and audibles that he called at OU.

From the first thing I googled:
http://www.nfldraftdog.com/2010-nfl-draft/sam-bradford.html

Originally posted by
The Concerns

Most of the passes in the Sooner playbook are out of the shotgun formation. That brings us to perhaps the biggest concern that GMs have about not only Bradford but almost all of the college spread formation quarterbacks—what about his footwork? The QB is under center for nearly all plays in the NFL.

Traditionally, shotgun or spread offense rookie QBs struggle with the 3, 5 and 7 step drops fundamental to the NFL passing game. Many high pick shotgun/spread formation QBs have failed. Nearly always their downfall has been due to footwork/accuracy problems. It is nearly impossible to have NFL level accuracy by a quarterback that lacks consistent footwork. The passing windows are microscopic compared to those in college even in good conferences. Timing of the throw is critical and timing is determined by footwork.

A second and nearly equally significant concern is the ability of Bradford to make pre-snap reads. An NFL quarterback must be able to read the defense before the snap to determine if the play needs to be changed or not. The Oklahoma system involves the team looking to the sideline to get the play. The reading of the D is done by the coaching staff in the booth, relayed to the sideline and given to the QB.

In the NFL, the QB must make the reads. Is the opponent going to blitz? Are they in zone, man or a combination coverage? Each of these possibilities requires different patterns and play calls. Many of the Big 12 QBs have never been responsible for making those reads. The problem is made more significant by the multiple defenses the NFL uses. While he had NFL quality receivers, they were not facing NFL quality defensive backs. These guys are bigger, faster, smarter, and hit a lot harder than any college conference defenses.

Yet another major question the NFL will have is Bradford's ability to anticipate the player coming open and hitting the spot where he will be when the ball gets there. Often that ability is what separates the very good quarterback from the Hall of Fame one. The Sooner offense is not built to require that. Almost all the patterns require a WR to stop in the open area because the Big 12 plays so much zone. In cases where he has faced man coverage, he has at least convinced me that he can anticipate the open receiver.

Can your leg get fucking swept any harder?

jrry, obviously you won't get a majority. I still think you get more than 10% of the 1st round QBs though even if you only pick from the top 15 programs or so.

I'm sure everyone would have their own definition of powerhouse. IMO part of the definition of powerhouse has to do with the prestige and recruiting power of the school. Let's also keep in mind that some of the traditional powerhouses may suck right now but were still strong at the time the QBs in this discussion played there.

Lets look at the top 20 NFL QBs (taken from a FF list, so its a debatable top 20, but decent sample) How many of those played for successful big time college programs? Carson Palmer and Vince young...Peyton maybe. Look at how many came from smaller schools or schools where the QB didn't have the best talent on the field. Look at how many came from a spread offense.

Drew Brees NO QB
Aaron Rodgers GB QB
Peyton Manning IND QB
Tom Brady NE QB
Tony Romo DAL QB
Matt Schaub HOU QB
Philip Rivers SD
Brett Favre MIN QB
Jay Cutler CHI QB
Kevin Kolb PHI QB
Matt Ryan ATL QB
Eli Manning NYG QB
Joe Flacco BAL QB
Donovan McNabb WAS
Carson Palmer CIN QB 1
Chad Henne MIA QB
Matthew Stafford DET
Ben Roethlisberger PIT
Vince Young TEN QB
Alex Smith SF

The odds are against you jrry. Im provide facts while you blindly call me stupid. How do you think that makes you look?


Give me a QB from a Pro Set offense any day of the week over one that came from the Spread. The Spread is a college gimmick that doesn't translate to the NFL.

Originally posted by ImTheScientist
Lets look at the top 20 NFL QBs How many of those played for successful big time college programs? Carson Palmer and Vince young...Peyton maybe. Look at how many came from smaller schools or schools where the QB didn't have the best talent on the field. Look at how many came from a spread offense.

Drew Brees NO QB
Aaron Rodgers GB QB
Peyton Manning IND QB
Tom Brady NE QB
Tony Romo DAL QB
Matt Schaub HOU QB
Philip Rivers SD
Brett Favre MIN QB
Jay Cutler CHI QB
Kevin Kolb PHI QB
Matt Ryan ATL QB
Eli Manning NYG QB
Joe Flacco BAL QB
Donovan McNabb WAS
Carson Palmer CIN QB 1
Chad Henne MIA QB
Matthew Stafford DET
Ben Roethlisberger PIT
Vince Young TEN QB
Alex Smith SF

The odds are against you jrry. Im provide facts while you blindly call me stupid. How do you think that makes you look?


WTF? Peyton maybe? Tennessee was a 1 loss school , and won the national title game a season after he left,..

Originally posted by ImTheScientist
Lets look at the top 20 NFL QBs (taken from a FF list, so its a debatable top 20, but decent sample) How many of those played for successful big time college programs? Carson Palmer and Vince young...Peyton maybe.

Brady, Henne, Stafford.
And lol at your "maybe"

how does jdbolik not have 6-7 different essays in this thread already?

someone should pm him

Originally posted by TrevJo
Brady, Henne, Stafford.
And lol at your "maybe"

Brady didn't play, Michigan average w/ Henne two good years, Georgia was not good w/ Stafford. To be a powerhouse you must be good. Ok, so Mannings team was good. Thats still A VERY underwhelming percentage even if you counted the three you listed. (which personally I would not include).

Powerhouse is USC, Oklahoma, Texas, Florida ....you get the picture. You would think with all those wins these teams get they would put out more QBs.

Michigan isn't a successful big time college program? They played in the Rose Bowl while Henne was there.

Either a) you've got at least 4 out of 20 names from big schools, which is 20%, not 10%
or b) you've managed to narrow the number of schools down so small to be saying nothing of importance, and it would probably be true of every position in football, not just QB

Originally posted by ImTheScientist
Michigan average w/ Henne two good years

Ooooh, Michigan is just average overall and Henne made them good. All time Div 1 wins and winning % leader merely "average", nice.

So, you're going for the "I only meant 4 schools" angle. Congrats on having a meaningless point.

Lets not forget, this is a Bradford debate and personally I would not feel good about paying a college spread offense QB, who hadn't played in a year, from a powerhouse school where he didn't get pass rushed that much money. Obviously time will tell, but maybe once every 10 years you get a John Elway or Peyton Manning at #1. Bradford is just going to be average, or will be out of the league due to injury. The rams are not good, and will not be good.

Originally posted by ImTheScientist
Lets look at the top 20 NFL QBs (taken from a FF list, so its a debatable top 20, but decent sample) How many of those played for successful big time college programs? Carson Palmer and Vince young...Peyton maybe. Look at how many came from smaller schools or schools where the QB didn't have the best talent on the field. Look at how many came from a spread offense.

Drew Brees NO QB - Spread Offense
Aaron Rodgers GB QB
Peyton Manning IND QB
Tom Brady NE QB
Tony Romo DAL QB
Matt Schaub HOU QB
Philip Rivers SD
Brett Favre MIN QB
Jay Cutler CHI QB
Kevin Kolb PHI QB - Spread offense
Matt Ryan ATL QB
Eli Manning NYG QB
Joe Flacco BAL QB - Spread offense
Donovan McNabb WAS
Carson Palmer CIN QB 1
Chad Henne MIA QB
Matthew Stafford DET
Ben Roethlisberger PIT
Vince Young TEN QB - spread offense
Alex Smith SF - Spread offense

The odds are against you jrry. Im provide facts while you blindly call me stupid. How do you think that makes you look?


Give me a QB from a Pro Set offense any day of the week over one that came from the Spread. The Spread is a college gimmick that doesn't translate to the NFL.

I'll take the better QB. Now, big time schools:
Brady - Michigan
Manning - Tennessee
Young - Texas
Stafford - UGA
Rodgers - Cal
Henne - Michigan
McNabb - Syracuse
Palmer - USC
Drew Brees - Purdue
All of those schools were elite schools when those guys played there.

As for the spread offense, it's a recent trend taking over CFB. However, Bradford isn't coming from a true spread and when I did a breakdown over like the last 4-5 years, the success rate of spread QBs vs. Pro Style QBs was very close to equal.

I am not blindly calling you stupid, I am calling you ignorant because you are. You aren't evaluating a player on a case by case basis, you are only claiming that because he was in a spread offense(not a true spread) and because he played for a top team, he won't succeed. Makes me think that you haven't watched Bradford because you haven't made a case against BRADFORD just a generalized case against all spread QBs and all QBs from top schools.

Originally posted by ImTheScientist
Originally posted by TrevJo

Brady, Henne, Stafford.
And lol at your "maybe"

Brady didn't play, Michigan average w/ Henne two good years, Georgia was not good w/ Stafford. To be a powerhouse you must be good. Ok, so Mannings team was good. Thats still A VERY underwhelming percentage even if you counted the three you listed. (which personally I would not include).

Powerhouse is USC, Oklahoma, Texas, Florida ....you get the picture. You would think with all those wins these teams get they would put out more QBs.



So you are saying when you take 4-5 teams out of 200+ and only consider the QBs they put out, there's going to be a higher % from other schools? Really? In just taking those 4, you had 2 out of 20 which is 10% of the list when you are comparing schools that make up 4/200+ which is not even 2% of CFB teams in Div. 1.

ITS is awful.