Warrior General Games

Originally posted by Kevin Smith
Originally posted by PP

Damnit, RJ, I'm sorry to see you go. Not because of the Gut job. Frankly, never cared much either way about them, but because I always liked and respected you and the Horns. For what it's worth though, as evident by my post in that thread, I thought the 'bitching and whining' comment was out of line myself.

Link?

Here is Hazy essentially telling RJ and Islander to stop "bitching and whining" or quit. Occurs near the bottom of page 3 of the thread pasted below.

Originally posted by thehazyone
I guess I'm tired of people bitching (always have been, even long before I was a mod and testing). It's a game - if you aren't enjoying it, then don't play or pay. It's really that simple. Me personally, if I was going to be unhappy about something for more than a couple months, I'd be long gone. I enjoy the game though and I understand it's not perfect and that there are things that need to improve (which is what I'm trying to do but with only one programmer, something which is at the core root at the major problem with this game, it takes a lot longer than if you had a well organized team of developers).

I'm just going to stay out of any thread that whines/bitches from now on, but y'all know where to find me if you need help or have any questions.

Hazy

Last line of my quote...Page 5 of the same thread
Originally posted by PP
BTW, Hazy, I have to agree with both RJ and Islander here. I can't speak for them, but I don't think it's unreasonable to expect the game to get better with each passing ssn. Do I expect some issues with the game each ssn and for many things not to work as I would like them to? Yes, of course I do. What I don't expect is for it to continually getting worse or wildly out of control swings from one extreme to the other.

What I just don't understand at all is how Bort can't see that he needs to take a step back and focus on fixing the foundation of his product (the sim itself) and stop with all the bells, noise makers and fancy decorations. As a matter of fact, I'd suggest taking away the fluff, fixing the foundation and then very slowly and gradually adding it back on over the course of many ssns. I mean, come on, 2 very good pro teams playing a 104-79 game?!?!?! Just wow!

I honestly and sincerely want this game to succeed. Hell, I've invested an embarrassingly large amount of time & $ into it. Besides, I do still enjoy it. Frankly, I don't believe that there is an owner up here that wants to see the game go to hell or fail. We all had to put in a shit ton of work to either get here or stay here. I like ya, man, but I think your post is out of line.

RJ was very frustrated with the sim this ssn, and I don't blame him 1 bit for those frustrations. He repeatedly slammed his head against the Real Improvement wall, by making very long, well thought out suggestions, several big threads in the general forum. The ones I saw, amazingly, the general support was pretty overwhelming, but yet nothing was changed. IMO, that brought him close to the tipping point. Then, his game against SD, a game with 2 very good USA Pro teams and no obviously blown D play amounting to 79-104 of pure insanity (they outgained them by 400 and some odd yds, only 1 TO and still got beat by 25 points?!) shoved him right to the edge and to extreme frustrations, only to have Hazy (a rep of GLB) essentially tell him to shut up or quit..

Not saying I would have reacted the same, but I can certainly understand why he hung in up right then and there.

http://goallineblitz.com/game/forum_thread.pl?thread_id=2586980

Originally posted by thehazyone
Originally posted by cincredfan

Originally posted by thehazyone



And fwiw, there are people telling me that the people complaining in USA Pro are the vocal minority and that most people are pleased with the game. I love the game and am going to continue playing it and doing everything I can for it, but to say that it's the vocal minority complaining is ludicrous imo.

This comment is definitely ridiculous. I am not one to post a lot regarding the shortcomings of the game but they are most definitely there.

I really think 1 of the biggest issues with the game relates to management. Hazy - you have tried to do a lot for the improvement of the game. (If you really told rj to quit if he was unhappy then I am disturbed).

I really think it says something about management to alienate some of their most loyal customers. I worry that the game engine will continue to decline as they make adjustments based on faulty logic thus the need to remove VA's until the game engine is fixed as recommended by PP.

1 other thing that worries me is profits made from GLB will continue to decline over time while overhead cost will increase or at best stay the same. 1 other thing I find ridiculous is the 100-200 point flex point giveaways - the best and worst customers get the same thing. Management needs to do better than that.

I didn't tell any one to quit. Here is what I said:

Originally posted by thehazyone

I guess I'm tired of people bitching (always have been, even long before I was a mod and testing). It's a game - if you aren't enjoying it, then don't play or pay. It's really that simple. Me personally, if I was going to be unhappy about something for more than a couple months, I'd be long gone. I enjoy the game though and I understand it's not perfect and that there are things that need to improve (which is what I'm trying to do but with only one programmer, something which is at the core root at the major problem with this game, it takes a lot longer than if you had a well organized team of developers).


It certainly wasn't directed at any one individual but was more my personal belief that if you aren't happy with something, you shouldn't be doing it. If rj took that as me telling him to quit, I guess that's his choice, but it wasn't the case. I think he just read too much into that statement since it was in a thread he started but it wasn't directed at him personally.

Hazy still feels as if he did nothing wrong and that the comment was directed at the masses and not RJ. But it doesnt matter what Hazy thinks, it matters what RJ feels. RJ had a massive amount of respect for Hazy and thought he was the one person that was actually doing something to help the game. In that thread, Hazy made the comment....but more than just RJ thought it was directed at him as opposed to people in general. Hazy, you tell yourself whatever allows yourself to feel better at night. The bottom line is you shat on a person that had nothing but respect for you and drove the nail in the coffin as far as him leaving. Congrats on being a Mod bro....you have officially sold out.

Well, I'll give Hazy the benefit of the doubt and say that he sure wasn't trying to drive RJ from the game. However, I refuse to believe that Hazy is foolish enough not to realize that the OP of that thread would take those comments as being aimed directly at him. Hazy is a smart guy and no where near that short sighted. I sure am not and never was trying to hang Hazy here. I seriously doubt he meant any real harm. However, whether he likes it or not, a lot of players now view him as a rep for GLB. In that role, words can hold a lot more sway, both positively and negatively, with the lowly masses that fund GLB.

The last person I'm going to blame for RJ leaving is Hazy. And if RJ did quit because Hazy told him to then I hope there's not a big bridge anywhere near RJ and no smartass kid tells him to jump.

I didn't mean any real harm and if rj made his decision based upon that, then he's much too sensitive. I've spent a lot of time pm'ing rj so we had developed a good friendship. Same could be said for islander (and many others). That doesn't mean I won't tell them my opinion if I have one.

Because I became a mod means I can't voice my opinion? Sorry, it doesn't work that way with me. I'm certainly not going to stop saying what I think just because I have funny black letters under my name. It was my opinion that if you're that unhappy playing a game then you shouldn't play it. It wasn't directed at any one person... I even said at the beginning of the post that this was a problem I'd had long before I was a mod. I still hold that opinion. As I said, if my saying that led to rj quitting, then he's much too sensitive. However, if he quit because he truly was unhappy with the game and wasn't enjoying the experience, then I feel that he is better off having done so.

I am merely an unpaid volunteer for GLB that is doing this because I love the game, the people in the game, and sincerely want to make it a better experience for every one. To me, it's worth the hassle of the countless pm's I get and the unhappy responses I get when people don't agree with what I say in the bugs forum. I don't want to offend people's sensibilities, and unfortunately it is much too easy to do so on the Internet. I merely want to help make GLB the greatest game possible.

not sure how hazy sold out in that comment- to me it looks like he goes passive with his own beef that a development team might be more effective than a one man show as far as making fixes-

hell, proof of concept is plain by the sheer number of users on GLB- sending the kid to boarding school for finishing work might be just the ticket to bypassing season long iterations of code testing

in any case I'm game as long as the owners I have are willing to put up w/ it - they make it fun

Now this has turned into the 'blame hazy' thread?

And anyone who disagrees is a troll? Jesus, the holier-than-thou bullshit in this forum is pathetic.

rj is gone; maybe he was a good owner and everyone liked having him around, maybe he was smart and his ideas were good... but it doesn't matter. Doesn't everyone realize that we are playing an internet game with rules made up by and adjusted constantly by someone else? Why does everyone here seem to think they can affect the overall direction this game takes?

It's a sim game. Madden has MILLIONS of dollars in development money (WAYYYYYYYYY, more than GLB) and IT doesn't have to deal with over 300k players in its 'full' game (I'm not counting online here, as that is a different beast), and even THEY aren't 'realistic'. Full of exploits (that DON'T get fixed, and DON'T give supporters and players the same opportunity to test and bitch about them), not realistic, and frankly more limited in player development in many ways. What RATIONAL person thinks that this game has ever or WOULD ever be realistic?

rj quit. He's done. The game wasn't meeting his needs, and rather than be frustrated with it, he bailed. Good on him. There's life beyond this, and if you don't enjoy it, you shouldn't play it. Because hazy was the one who said that (whose opinion mattered to rj), that doesn't make hazy the bad guy. I'm not 'sad' rj left, and I'm not mad abotu it either. Anyone who tries to bully other people into playing this game for a second more than they want to is not only being an internet cunt, but pretty retarded as well, since there is NO power to actually stop another player from quitting. Nor should there be.

Gutting is a part of this game. The fast people get that, the less 'buggy' this game will get. The more you try and treat this game like something it's NOT, the less you will enjoy it.

Now if people want to keep on trying to find someone to blame for losing their 'friend' or whatever... pretend it's my fault. I punched rj's boyfriend, so he tried to run me down with his car, and now he's in jail. GLB's stance on owners like that is tough, and he's been kicked out. I'm the asshole.

Go.

Originally posted by PP
Originally posted by Modok


RJ was a guy whose first priority has always been for a fair, balanced sim. He would have been willing to do whatever it took..no matter how many hours..to help get it right.



I'd have to agree 100% with that, as well...I honestly see this as a loss for GLB. As a whole, GLB is divided mostly into 2 large groups: The Bort Can Do No Wrongs & The Bort Can Do No Rights. I always saw RJ as one of the much, much smaller group located in the middle. That group has no desire to bash the shit out of everything Bort does, but also isn't afraid to point out the flaws in GLB and desperately wants the game to improve. They also won't sit there and apologize for every mistake Bort makes, but do give credit when credit is due. In other words, that group wants to try to help improve the game and has the guts to try suggesting improvement when they can, always at the risk of having both of the infinitely larger groups bash the holy hell out of them for trying.

IMO, we lost one of the good guys today


Very well put on all points.

I think this blaming Hazy thing needs to stop. It's out of line really.

Bottom line is rj hasnt been happy with the game for a good while now. This was just the final straw. This game is close to being un-saveable, so we either accept this heaping pile of dung that it is, or move on and cut our losses.

With all due respect to Hazy who only wants to help the state of the game, taking on the role of a bugs mod is not a wise decision if you are tired of hearing bitching/whining etc. I am sure you are doing a fantastic job and one that I would not have the confidence to ever do myself but you have to expect people to point out their frustrations with issues that need to be addressed in the game. As a bug mod these complaints should only help you find areas of the game to do further testing on.

Season 9 is a major improvement as for games being entertaining to watch but as far as the sim goes there are still major problems that obviously need to be addressed. Waiting till the end of each season will not help solve things. These issues need to be taken care of right away so that GLB becomes a better game sooner than later even if it would change the outcome to certain team progress. I hope the poll we took concerning in season changes helps make this happen. GLB is after all still in beta. For Bort to say that there will be no more VA reset's for a long time makes me think that either he doesn't care to further adjust problems that may occur or that he was just confident that there would be no reason to. I think as well as hope it were the later and they are adjusted asap.

As for RJ leaving I blame no one for this. I do think Hazy's post did push him over the edge but RJ was already standing too close for a while now for that to be a major factor and it was bound to happen sooner or later. As far as I see it, RJ wanted nothing more than this game to be the best it could be. When the last hope you have in that happening tells people in general that they are sick of hearing about it can make a person give up.

Just my opinions.

Dang RJ, sorry to see you go man,... looks like i'm late to this party.

I will make 1 last post regarding this and I will be done.

I essentially agree with PP on all accounts (as to what need to be done to improve the game)

I think that hazy has over the past season done a very good job as being a voice of reason for Bort. I can see essentially everyone's point of view including Borts but don't agree with Borts.

Hazy's point of view - spends far too much time on GLB working for GLB though not getting paid though he likely has done a lot to improve this game over the past season or 2 (especially the past season though at least visible to me). He does because he enjoys it but has increasingly seen a number of complaints come his way because he has become the face of the game at least in regards to USA Pro.

RJ's point of view - spends far too much time on this game working to make his team better. He feels like he has good suggestions and it appears so obvious to him (really a lot of the agents) some immediate improvements that would make this game better (ie removing VA's) It appears that hazy and he became friends and was hurt by hazy's comments. I disagree with what he did and definitely don't blame hazy at all

Bort's point of view - Original GLB view season 1- He truly enjoyed the game and everything that came with it - befriended many people and was ecstatic when it became popular. At some point Bort became overwhelmed with the game and started to isolate himself. I could go on and on about this but the thing that stands out is that Bort does what Bort wants to do when Bort wants to do it.

I think Bort needs to change his approach to the the game. Bort needs to speak to the masses more often and needs to work on expressing his thoughts better -. This wouldn't take much time - a quick twice weekly address regarding the game and an occasional chat regarding the same. Q&A's with Bort could become a weekly post as well . Hazy stated Bort wasn't removing VA's but I have never seen that anywhere - why is that as I spend far too much time on this game to not know that. That is just 1 example of information not gettting disseminated correctly.

I am sorry to see RJ gone but hope at least some kind of positive comes out from this.

Here's where Bort said VA's weren't getting removed. It's from the test server - should probably put it in the testers blog but it doesn't really have anything to do with testing, more it was me asking the question about some current issues and getting a response:

Originally posted by Bort
VA's aren't going anywhere. They add too much potential to player building to be removed entirely, and I do not believe they cause as big of an imbalance as perceived overall. Some may be too good or not good enough, but adjustments can be made to them as needed, and as we've done. If you recall, many people were asking for the attribute ones to remain, and to make the rest EVEN MORE powerful. I've taken the middle ground approach there, and I think it's the best one.

Roster limit will help special teamer not being such a beast.

Big Heart will get a reset here pretty shortly. I want to make sure I allow one day's notice at least so people can reset it if they want. It's currently a little intertwined with some other updates, so once we're comfortable with all the recent web based stuff, I can do it.

Passing (though a lot of passing numbers right now is screen and dump passes) is currently a little overpowered I think. Getting the pass rush updates finished with testing and pushed live will help that. I wouldn't be opposed to maybe making PD checks a little easier, as well, but it needs to be taken one step at a time. I am still seeing some stupid defenses out there, though. Cover 0 vs 5WR? One guy gets beat and it's all over. There are players on defense called "safety" for a reason.

Originally posted by thehazyone
Here's where Bort said VA's weren't getting removed. It's from the test server - should probably put it in the testers blog but it doesn't really have anything to do with testing, more it was me asking the question about some current issues and getting a response:

Originally posted by Bort

VA's aren't going anywhere. They add too much potential to player building to be removed entirely, and I do not believe they cause as big of an imbalance as perceived overall. Some may be too good or not good enough, but adjustments can be made to them as needed, and as we've done. If you recall, many people were asking for the attribute ones to remain, and to make the rest EVEN MORE powerful. I've taken the middle ground approach there, and I think it's the best one.

Roster limit will help special teamer not being such a beast.

Big Heart will get a reset here pretty shortly. I want to make sure I allow one day's notice at least so people can reset it if they want. It's currently a little intertwined with some other updates, so once we're comfortable with all the recent web based stuff, I can do it.

Passing (though a lot of passing numbers right now is screen and dump passes) is currently a little overpowered I think. Getting the pass rush updates finished with testing and pushed live will help that. I wouldn't be opposed to maybe making PD checks a little easier, as well, but it needs to be taken one step at a time. I am still seeing some stupid defenses out there, though. Cover 0 vs 5WR? One guy gets beat and it's all over. There are players on defense called "safety" for a reason.

Thank you hazy.