Warrior General Games

So do the lightweights and middleweights get to bulk up over time? Come on work with me here Staz work with me...

Originally posted by BellyCheck
So do the lightweights and middleweights get to bulk up over time? Come on work with me here Staz work with me...

Originally posted by Staz

Originally posted by SikoraP13

Originally posted by Staz


Originally posted by SikoraP13



As long as you implement a training system to alter weight in small increments, +1

This is a possibility. Maybe some off season type deal?

I was thinking something more along the lines of 10TPs (5 days) = +/- 3-5 lbs
--My Thoughts: I like this, but at the same time I don't like this idea. The reason I'm not fond of it, it due to gaining weight during the season. It's very tough to GAIN weight while actually in a competitive season. Weight loss is much less difficult, so that I could see, but weight GAIN is usually achieved during the offseason. If we could move this to then, and reduce the cost (or even add a different option), that would be ideal

Plus, I think that the more weight you gain, the lower the gains you'll make. Very similar to training as it is. If you're on the lighter end of the scale for your position, weight gains will be larger. However, if you're on the heavier side, weight gains will be slower. Eventually, gains will be so minimal (1lb?) that it's not even worth the effort. This would make sense and fit in with reality as well. When initially beginning to 'bulk up', people often find it a little easier. However, the longer they go, the slower the gains, to the point where they're doing whatever they can to 'squeeze' out the pounds.

Should go for weight loss as well. Heavier = Easier, Lighter = Harder. This could easily prevent people from training their RB up to 280lbs and putting him as a power back.


From the original post

Okay then, that

Originally posted by BellyCheck
Okay then, that

lol Yeah, I do think we need more fleshing out of the weight training, though.

Do we only do it during the offseason? Make it a "one time" thing each offseason, so that we aren't faced with the issue of varying length offseasons? If that made sense lol

i like the principle a lot...makes good sense to use something already within the game

Originally posted by Staz
Solution D: Make Weight a Larger Factor in Physical Skills BINGO
-Why I like this approach: It factors into real life as well. A 300lb OL isn't going to be as quick or evasive as a 215lb HB, but at the same time, that 215lb HB isn't going to hit as hard as the 265lb DE. Yes, there are players who break this mold in real life, and that's something we can't always emulate. However, 100 Strength shouldn't be the same across the board...

I know a lot of people are for this, but I hate this idea. Speed is speed. Strength is strength. I do agree that weight should be a bigger part of the game though.

My idea that I've brought up before is having different soft caps for players of different height and weight. The effect would be similar, but without. It would also allow for some flexibility, for players to gain or lose weight up to a certain point in their career (specifically, until the point at which they hit a soft cap that would be changed by a weight change.)

Originally posted by TrevJo
Change the ability soft caps depending on the height and weight of the player. Actually now that I think about this I don't know why it wasn't done this way in the first place. For example:
Strength - Slightly lower for taller players, much higher for heavier players
Speed soft caps - Slightly higher for taller players, lower for heavier players
Agility soft caps - Lower for taller players, lower for heavier players
Jumping - Slightly higher for taller players, much lower for heavier players
Stamina - Slightly lower for taller players, much lower for heavier players
Vision - Slightly higher for taller players, unaffected by weight
Confidence - Unaffected by height and weight

So for example. Take a player that is 6'2" 220#. Does't matter what his position is. Soft caps might be:
Strength - 48
Speed - 52
Agility - 47
Jumping - 48
Stamina - 48
Vision - 50

On the other hand, a player that is 6'5" 300# might have the following soft caps:
Strength - 60
Speed - 45
Agility - 41
Jumping - 45
Stamina - 44
Vision - 52

And a player that is 5'9" 190# might have the following soft caps:
Strength - 43
Speed - 51
Agility - 57
Jumping - 50
Stamina - 53
Vision - 47

So the soft caps are determined by height and weight. You could have a button next to the rolls (and also on the player page later) where the user can just click it to see what their soft caps are at that height and weight. I think you could incorporate gaining and losing weight by allowing players to adjust their weight until they hit a soft cap. Once they hit a soft cap they are set, which IMO is fairly realistic because you rarely see NFL players change their weight significantly after their rookie year. (The only exception is at the end of careers you often see guys lose weight just because they can't stay fit at heavier weights anymore.)

Meanwhile, the player's automatic level gains are still determined by their position, because of what they do in practice. And with a new system more carefully tuned to each position rather than trying to fit the major/minor system.

So for a WR, automatic level gains something like:
Speed +.4 Catching +.4 Agility +.3 Jumping +.3 Stamina +.3 Vision +.2 Confidence +.2 Carrying +.2 Strength +.1 Blocking +.1 Throwing +.1 Tackling +.1

For a LB, automatic level gains something like:
Tackling +.4 Strength +.3 Agility +.3 Vision +.3 Confidence +.3 Stamina +.2 Jumping +.2 Speed +.2 Catching +.1 Carrying +.1 Blocking +.1

Those might not add up to 3 or whatever, but you get the idea. If you are making big changes, the strict majors/minors system really ought to go.

So if a guy really wants to make a linebacker that is 6'4" and quicker and faster than Randy Moss, he can do it, but it will cost him a lot more SP to do it than the guy who creates a 6'0" WR, and it will cost him even more SP to do it if he also makes the guy 250#.

If you want to re-vamp things, be it for new players only or whatever, in my humble opinion this is the way to do it.

A guy like Vernon Davis isn't really a freak. He's just a workout warrior. He happens to have put more effort into his physical build than into his skills. He can't catch worth a damn. Terrell Owens is the same way, really. It doesn't make sense to make Vernon Davis' 100 speed slower than Torry Holt's 100 speed. The difference in their development is that Torry Holt was able to get to that point while still working on his catching religiously.

The thing is, if we put in caps NOW, we'd have to go back and compensate all of the current builds, which Bort has said is impossible since they don't track training and where you put your SP.

So to put in caps, we'd need to wipe everything. The suggestion I am presenting is a NOW fix, and doesn't require a whole bunch of extra bull.

Originally posted by Staz
The thing is, if we put in caps NOW, we'd have to go back and compensate all of the current builds, which Bort has said is impossible since they don't track training and where you put your SP.

So to put in caps, we'd need to wipe everything. The suggestion I am presenting is a NOW fix, and doesn't require a whole bunch of extra bull.

Yeah, but, no offense, I hate your idea. Adjusted speed, adjusted strength, adjusted agility, adjusted stamina, I really don't want that.

I realize that my idea could only be done probably for new players only. But I strongly believe that is is how weight and soft caps should really operate.

The idea of caps and the idea I'm presenting give the same results. For two players of largely different weights, they'd need to invest more SP to achieve.

However, mine is just simpler to add now, and more realistic. Plus, I'd imagine it would require less "work" on behalf of the players to figure out what the speed would be as opposed to what the caps would be, especially if the "fixed" total was on the player pages.

Originally posted by Staz
mine is just simpler to add now, and more realistic.

Agree with the first part, strongly disagree with the second part.

Originally posted by Staz
Plus, I'd imagine it would require less "work" on behalf of the players to figure out what the speed would be as opposed to what the caps would be, especially if the "fixed" total was on the player pages.

Caps are simple. Like I suggested in one of the threads, just have a button/link you can press on your player's page to see your his soft caps. (Make it available at roll/reroll time as well.)

Originally posted by TrevJo
Originally posted by Staz

mine is just simpler to add now, and more realistic.

Agree with the first part, strongly disagree with the second part.

Originally posted by Staz

Plus, I'd imagine it would require less "work" on behalf of the players to figure out what the speed would be as opposed to what the caps would be, especially if the "fixed" total was on the player pages.

Caps are simple. Like I suggested in one of the threads, just have a button/link you can press on your player's page to see your his soft caps. (Make it available at roll/reroll time as well.)

1. How does making a player's weight affect their movement not realistic? Heavier players generally aren't as nimble or fast as smaller players. Bigger players are generally stronger than smaller players. They don't get stronger "easier", they're just stronger in general.

2. Caps would be complicated to add. With my suggestion, each pound affects your performance, however minutely. Are you going to do each pound for caps? Are you going to have one player with 48.01 as a cap, and 48.02 on the next player? Adding caps runs into these problems

What about the current players?: Obviously, you would have to completely redo things since there as so many established players. So many. It's not as simple as saying "oh hey, let's just plug in this equation, and we'll be good to go.". It's WAY more complicated than that. -My suggestion applies to EVERY player, and doesn't require any additional math. A simple plug into the sim code, and voila.

How do you show caps?: You say just add a button where they can see the cap, but that would mean that you now have to make a code that would calculate the caps for the players, and then show it appropriately. - Simply having the formula plugged in and visible to show the adjusted speed from my suggestion seems simpler

What happens when players want to change their weight?: The caps would change, which would then, in turn, cause the whole build to be different, or else you'd run into exploits. Sounds complicated as hell to code, understand, and even use for players. -My suggestion allows players to train their weight to change their build style in the middle of their careers. Players gain or lose weight for different roles all the time, and this would make it possible without needing to alter the build.

Originally posted by Staz
1. How does making a player's weight affect their movement not realistic?

Originally posted by dmfa41
If a 270-lb player runs a 4.4 40 yard dash, he runs it in the same 4.4 seconds any other player would run it. 27 reps of 225 lbs is 27 reps of 225 lbs regardless of whether a 190-lb HB or a 320-lb DT does it.

Originally posted by Staz
They don't get stronger "easier", they're just stronger in general.

Disagree. They do get stronger easier.

Originally posted by Staz
2. Caps would be complicated to add. With my suggestion, each pound affects your performance, however minutely. Are you going to do each pound for caps? Are you going to have one player with 48.01 as a cap, and 48.02 on the next player? Adding caps runs into these problems

Having different attribute caps for different weights would be no more complicated than having different adjusted attribute values for different weights. Maybe each pound would have an minute effect, maybe your cap would be rounded so that in some cases you can change a pound or two without affecting your caps. Either way it's not any more of a problem for adjusted caps than it would be for weight-adjusted attributes.

Originally posted by Staz
What about the current players?:

I already addressed this. The weight-dependent ability softcaps concept would have to apply to new players only.

Originally posted by Staz
How do you show caps?: You say just add a button where they can see the cap, but that would mean that you now have to make a code that would calculate the caps for the players, and then show it appropriately. - Simply having the formula plugged in and visible to show the adjusted speed from my suggestion seems simpler

Showing the adjusted attribute is more complicated. Either way, Bort has to come up with formulas for it. But your way, people would always have to be able to see both their raw attribute and also their weight-adjusted attribute. Also, your teammates and people recruiting you would also have to be able to see your actual attribute value and your adjusted attribute value for each attribute. Your Weight-adjusted attributes would also add extra complication because equipment would not have the same effect on you at 200 pounds as it would if you went up to 210 pounds.
With the caps, it's currently a bigger pain in the ass to look up the attribute soft caps, you have to go to the wiki or wherever to look it up. Having a link to see your would be easier than looking up the caps is now. (The only thing that would be harder about it is you wouldn't be able to memorize one set of caps and use them for every player.) And you would only have to look at it when planning your build. Your teammates and people recruiting you would never have to see it. Equipment would be the same for every player.

Originally posted by Staz
What happens when players want to change their weight?:

Again, I already addressed this. They could do it until they have reached a cap that would be affected by the weight change. It's realistic to only allow weight changes for a certain period of time, you rarely see significant weight changes for players once they enter the NFL. (Unless they are just slacking off and getting out of shape.) Besides, weight changes are not even a part of the game right now.

To lose or gain weight, it would be a training option. Right now all we have is like night on the town, shopping token or training bonus.Add something like Eat At a Buffet +5 lbs and Work Out in Gym
-5 lbs

Or how ever.

for new players though? example i make a new guy who weighs 300 lbs and has 9 speed i wont catch anything if you take weight into effect. honestly i say let it be. the weight dosent make a diffrence for anyone right now. and to you QB's i recommend you vote against this. simply because if your taking strength into affect for a 100 speed 100 strength dl you will be kill every single play

what about accounting speed into effect here, in the OP, the scale says this:

100 Strength
Heavy-------------------------------------------Light
Powerful------------Strong---------------Average

Shouldn't this be depending on the speed the person is traveling as well?
A light person going extremely fast can knock a harder hit than a heavy person going slow. but what this suggests is that No matter what the speed, the heavy person will always knock a harder hit.
(sorry if this has been brought up in the last 10 pages, I really didnt feel like checking every post to see if this has been brought up)