Warrior General Games

Originally posted by taurran
I already did. Take off your blinders and learn to read.

You are dense as all hell. Get a clue.

Originally posted by taurran
Originally posted by PP

Originally posted by hays23


any system would be better than completely random...

I honestly don't know this to be true, but I'd GUESS that it isn't "random" and that Bort tries to balance it himself, likely with some input from another admin or 2. Hell, wouldn't be the least bit surprised if he looks at NiborRis's rankings as well. I could be completely wrong, though. It's just a very slightly educated guess.

Highly educated. Those rankings are quite accurate at day 40.

Not really. The top 10 teams are very close. How did a #11 make it to the WL finals last season if the rankings are so fucking great?

There is no proff that Zeta is better than Alpha anyway. game 1 was 9-7 alpha if a remember right. Not a huge difference.

Originally posted by bobdakota
Originally posted by taurran

Originally posted by PP


Originally posted by hays23



any system would be better than completely random...

I honestly don't know this to be true, but I'd GUESS that it isn't "random" and that Bort tries to balance it himself, likely with some input from another admin or 2. Hell, wouldn't be the least bit surprised if he looks at NiborRis's rankings as well. I could be completely wrong, though. It's just a very slightly educated guess.

Highly educated. Those rankings are quite accurate at day 40.

Not really. The top 10 teams are very close. How did a #11 make it to the WL finals last season if the rankings are so fucking great?

There is no proff that Zeta is better than Alpha anyway. game 1 was 9-7 alpha if a remember right. Not a huge difference.

Because anything can happen in the playoffs.

Last season, the team that played the Champions the closest played them in Round 2. That was the real championship game.

Originally posted by taurran
Highly educated. Those rankings are quite accurate at day 40.

no....I meant that I don't believe that the WL conferences are "random." I believe Bort tries to balance them himself. However, my belief that he does try to balance them himself (possibly with the help of an Admin or 2, most likely even looking at NiborRis's rankings) is nothing more than "a very slightly educated guess" on my part. In other words, it really may be random right now, but I don't think it is.

Originally posted by PP
Originally posted by taurran

Highly educated. Those rankings are quite accurate at day 40.

no....I meant that I don't believe that the WL conferences are "random." I believe Bort tries to balance them himself. However, my belief that he does try to balance them himself (possibly with the help of an Admin or 2, most likely even looking at NiborRis's rankings) is nothing more than "a very slightly educated guess" on my part. In other words, it really may be random right now, but I don't think it is.

Honestly it seems to me like they went out of their way to make them piss poor.

Both seasons Saigon has been in WL I did a when I saw the conference balance.

It should be random, however

Take the 4 teams from the conference championship games and randomly place 2 in each.
Take the 4 teams that lost in 2nd round and randomly place 2 in each.
Take the 8 teams that lost in 1st round and randomly place 4 in each.
Take the 8 Gold teams and randomly place 4 in each.
Take the 8 Silver teams and randomly place 4 in each.

I know that there has also been talk of using some kind of a rivalry forumal, but I have no clue if that's being applied anywhere, let alone in WL

Would be pretty easy to make some sort of formula

Teams in previous WL final stay in their conferences
Previous runner ups switch conferences
Teams lost in 2nd round- Those that lost to eventual conf champ stay, other 2 switch
Teams that lost in 1st round- Those that lost to teams that made conf championship switch, other 4 stay

Incoming Teams
Each Pro league sends 1 team to each conference
Each conference gets 4 league champs
Use some Point system to assign each team a point value and balance these values as close as possible - For the sake of this idea I gave 1 point for previous ssn's league runner up, 2 for champ, add 1 point for each season the team has previously spent in WL, add .5 for winning championship vs previous wl team.

If you went by that method conferences would be...

Alpha
returning- Chocolate, Kai, D9, Saigon, Hounds, Alpine, Moose Jaw, QCBC
new- Defenders, Korb, Krungthep, Monowi, Tyrrhenian, Osaka, LOL, Silent City

Zeta
returning- Lincoln, Gurupies, Hali, SoCal, Gunny, Speyside, Mayan, Shockers
new- Honolulu, Parma, Smurfs, Charlesburough, Russian, Rosarica, Carthage, College Town NWA

Originally posted by PP
no....I meant that I don't believe that the WL conferences are "random." I believe Bort tries to balance them himself. However, my belief that he does try to balance them himself (possibly with the help of an Admin or 2, most likely even looking at NiborRis's rankings) is nothing more than "a very slightly educated guess" on my part. In other words, it really may be random right now, but I don't think it is.

I guess putting saigon blaze indi Lincoln gunny and alpine in one conference was silly. IMO those were the top 6 preseason teams. It turned out to not be true, but an educated guess would say those need to be split up

1) I'm about 90% sure the WL conferences are completely random with no human input.
2) Using my rankings for anything important at all is fraught with peril as there are ways to game the system
3) An extension of the above - any automated formula that is more complex than "100% random draw" can be gamed. See: MVP. It's not really a good idea to use a completely automated formula that's exploitable.
4) If it's not completely automated, then the risk of bias exists. Who gets to help choose? Me? The 16 owners of WL teams that stay? The 32 owners of all the WL teams? Bort? Bort + other admins?
If it's admins, you have the problem that they don't really understand the game at as high a level as the players (pretty standard for any complex game; the creator is rarely the one who is best at it) and also that offseason is the busiest time by far for the admins already. It's another task that has to be done before day -8 can happen.
If it's the team owners, you still need to provide a system where they give input and it rolls into a result - there's no chance in hell of getting 32 owners to agree to a 16/16 split of teams ever. And whatever system you create is rife for exploitation as well with collusion, something we ALREADY know WL owners can and will exploit for competitive advantage or lulz or both.

IMHO, the best solutions are going to involve random distribution of teams. If you really want to make assumptions that WL veterans are better than the promoting teams, then you could divvy them up I suppose, but that's not always fair either.
Zeta had 9 WL veterans, and yet 3 new teams are going to make the playoffs in the hardest conference ever.

So you can't assume the WL veterans are stronger than the WL new teams. You can't assume the Conf Champions are better than the 2nd round exits in the WL playoffs unless the WL conferences were fair the prior season. You can't really make ANY a priori assumptions about how good the teams in WL are ahead of time at all.

So either you just say "These 4 PLs promote to Zeta and these 4 PLs promote to Alpha" and never mix them, or you have the current system of fully random. I personally think the current system is our best option, all things considered.

And now with extended plateau, a demotion doesn't screw your long term plans for seasons, either, so the worst case scenarios aren't nearly as ugly as they used to be.

Pretty sure the results indicate the process is random tbh, since random sorting is quite likely to not give parity at all.

Originally posted by remus7x


Zeta
returning- Lincoln, Gurupies, Hali, SoCal, Gunny, Speyside, Mayan, Shockers
new- Honolulu, Parma, Smurfs, Charlesburough, Russian, Rosarica, Carthage, College Town NWA



terrible conference

Originally posted by kurieg
Pretty sure the results indicate the process is random tbh, since random sorting is quite likely to not give parity at all.



That's one reason it's could be said to possibly be selected by Bort, or someone.

If the conferences aren't balanced, you have parity. If they are balanced, you don't have parity. See what I mean?

Maybe there should be an owners poll or some sort of draft.