Warrior General Games

Originally posted by PatricktheDookie
Originally posted by bhall43

wat

Let me spell it out for you, then.

1) Speed is too powerful of an attribute in the current version of the game, especially for a position like WR which has to prioritize speed over all other attributes.

2) It would be a beneficial thing for the game if a variety of builds were viable. (balance and all that jizz is cool)

3) In their current forum, route running, quick cut, and first step only add to the speed problem. Receivers rarely slow down and maintain near-maximum speed throughout their routes.

4) There is a difference (in theory) between getting open via speed and getting open via cuts/route running.

5) SAs that could allow for players to fake out CBs to get open are instead compounding the overall speed problem.

6) In an ideal world, the SAs could be changed to allow for a more well-rounded receiver to stand a chance. Route running, for example, could lose effectiveness the higher a character's speed attribute is. For example, it could provide a higher bonus for lower speed receivers (after all, it is in the possession tree) and a lower bonus for higher speed receivers. This could conceivably allow possession receivers to build their character without maximizing speed but still be a reasonably effective receiver.

Patrick, I pointed this EXACT same thing out in GLB main and mostly everyone agreed but GLB never cared to do anything with it. If I remember right, me and PP had a lengthy discussion on it.

Originally posted by msupoke

Speed is not the same as first step and quick cut. That is agility, in real life, at least. I have 4.8 receivers with extremely quick feet on my football team. There are many 4.4 guys who can't come close to that kind of agility.


4.8 guys with really quick feet are called horrible nfl linebackers

Originally posted by Dpride59
Originally posted by msupoke


Speed is not the same as first step and quick cut. That is agility, in real life, at least. I have 4.8 receivers with extremely quick feet on my football team. There are many 4.4 guys who can't come close to that kind of agility.


4.8 guys with really quick feet are called horrible nfl linebackers

I don't know of any 4.8 WRs in the NFL but there are successful 4.8 TEs and I do know of 4.6 to 4.7 WRs who had or are having a lot of success.

Originally posted by jrry32
Patrick, I pointed this EXACT same thing out in GLB main and mostly everyone agreed but GLB never cared to do anything with it. If I remember right, me and PP had a lengthy discussion on it.

Yep, I remember it. This is one of the few areas I agree with you 100%.

Originally posted by Dpride59
Originally posted by msupoke


Speed is not the same as first step and quick cut. That is agility, in real life, at least. I have 4.8 receivers with extremely quick feet on my football team. There are many 4.4 guys who can't come close to that kind of agility.


4.8 guys with really quick feet are called horrible nfl linebackers

I don't coach in the NFL.

Originally posted by Dpride59


lol... I Wouldn't call our guys speed freaks. I'd call them trying to be better versions of ed o brien.

http://goallineblitz.com/game/player.pl?player_id=1270278

But continue to make things up. It amuses me

When a character with 49 points in equipment speed and another 3.81 from VAs is not classified as "focusing on speed," then there's a significant problem with the sim.

Originally posted by msupoke
I don't coach in the NFL.

if we are to assume the wl is the nfl, I guess that explains why all these people with 4.8 speed aren't able to get separation vs wl cb's than huh?

Originally posted by msupoke
Originally posted by Dpride59

Originally posted by msupoke



Speed is not the same as first step and quick cut. That is agility, in real life, at least. I have 4.8 receivers with extremely quick feet on my football team. There are many 4.4 guys who can't come close to that kind of agility.


4.8 guys with really quick feet are called horrible nfl linebackers

I don't coach in the NFL.

Meh I'd say quick cut is more route running(and COD ability) while first step is acceleration. For example, Donnie Avery has off the charts agility but is a poor route runner.

Oh, and Sharpe was 4.7, maybe even 4.8 when he was breaking Packer's records. What were the 40 times of the sprinters the Raiders have tried over the years again? Ironic, since speed is the most important FB skill that I can't even remember their names.

Speed is a p important skill for a WR, but NOT the most important and you are only arguing it is to protect your OMG speed builds.

Originally posted by jrry32
Lets take a step back here, PP. Speed is the most important attribute but:
A) Some guys don't have track speed but do have Football speed
and
B) Some guys make up for less speed with awesome route running and agility or great hands and leaping ability
Basically, when it comes to separation...speed is the #1 thing(physically) that gets it BUT unlike in GLB, there is more than one way to get separation AND route running is more important than speed.(route running isn't physical though)

I disagree. Sure, they have to be fast, but if speed was the most important skill for NFL WRs, teams would raid the Olympic track team every year. the Raiders have tried it. So did the Bears, and both were dismal failures. Having a base level of speed is critical, but running even a 4.5 40 is not as critical as being able to catch. One can even make a fairly good argument that it isn't as important as being able to run route very effectively.

I've always looked at "FB speed" that the slower guys have as acceleration and agility, not raw speed.

Originally posted by Dpride59
Originally posted by msupoke

I don't coach in the NFL.

if we are to assume the wl is the nfl, I guess that explains why all these people with 4.8 speed aren't able to get separation vs wl cb's than huh?

Wes Welker is like a 4.65 40 IIRC and he gets tons of separation...why? Agility, acceleration and route running.(Also strength)

Originally posted by PatricktheDookie
When a character with 49 points in equipment speed and another 3.81 from VAs is not classified as "focusing on speed," then there's a significant problem with the sim.

hmm. I guess I don't see it like that. The game is set up to be a speed/str 1st type game. The game is basically written that 140 speed = 4.4, that is the meta game, and then you use sp's to get other things you think will have an impact on your players build. The fact you want the sim to adapt to your build, is your issue, I just am smart enough to realize that 140 speed is just a base that is required to be a WL worthy player. Players can sacrifice some speed and play at 130 speed, and others can sacrifice catching and such to play at 150 speed, but 140 seems to be a solid base for the next 2 seasons, and looking at it as a problem rather than a goal is your issue.

Originally posted by jrry32
Wes Welker is like a 4.65 40 IIRC and he gets tons of separation...why? Agility, acceleration and route running.(Also strength)

And randy moss on the other side of the field drawing double coverage. and tom brady doesn't hurt

Originally posted by PP
Oh, and Sharpe was 4.7, maybe even 4.8 when he was breaking Packer's records. What were the 40 times of the sprinters the Raiders have tried over the years again? Ironic, since speed is the most important FB skill that I can't even remember their names.

Speed is a p important skill for a WR, but NOT the most important and you are only arguing it is to protect your OMG speed builds.

Originally posted by jrry32

Lets take a step back here, PP. Speed is the most important attribute but:
A) Some guys don't have track speed but do have Football speed
and
B) Some guys make up for less speed with awesome route running and agility or great hands and leaping ability
Basically, when it comes to separation...speed is the #1 thing(physically) that gets it BUT unlike in GLB, there is more than one way to get separation AND route running is more important than speed.(route running isn't physical though)

I disagree. Sure, they have to be fast, but if speed was the most important skill for NFL WRs, teams would raid the Olympic track team every year. the Raiders have tried it. So did the Bears, and both were dismal failures. Having a base level of speed is critical, but running even a 4.5 40 is not as critical as being able to catch. One can even make a fairly good argument that it isn't as important as being able to run route very effectively.

I've always looked at "FB speed" that the slower guys have as acceleration and agility, not raw speed.

I think you are missing the point. There's more than one way to do it in the NFL but when it comes down to it, speed is considered the most important physical attribute for a WR. It is. If you have a guy with great speed that can run routes and catch the Football, he's money. The issue is, most speedsters aren't great route runners, or are small or struggle with catching the Football. That's why freak athletes like Moss are such a rarity. Still, unlike in GLB, slower WRs in the NFL can and will get separation if they run precise routes, have great acceleration, are strong and/or have great ability to attack the Football. Speed is not the end all be all like it is in GLB and you need supporting attributes. One issue is GLB CBs know the routes, they have no pause when the route is run so you have to outrun them. Route running doesn't work because the CB doesn't get fooled, he basically runs the exact same route as you as if the QB told him what it was.

Originally posted by PP
I disagree. Sure, they have to be fast, but if speed was the most important skill for NFL WRs, teams would raid the Olympic track team every year. the Raiders have tried it. So did the Bears, and both were dismal failures. Having a base level of speed is critical, but running even a 4.5 40 is not as critical as being able to catch. One can even make a fairly good argument that it isn't as important as being able to run route very effectively.

I've always looked at "FB speed" that the slower guys have as acceleration and agility, not raw speed.

You're just mad all your farm system players have a terrible eff level, and you want to nerf everyone good in this game bc you don't know how to properly build players.