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direfire
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I think the real issue is there has to be a better way to place teams and get rid of gutted teams that way everyone could see sacks against equal competition and decide if it was enough. The best DE's in the game should see somewhere in the 20's for sacks. I've gotten a couple of sacks against higher levels and equal levels. I don't even think my DE is that great. I know if I faced less CPU teams my sack number would probably be 5 to 8 ( I haven't counted em all) I've been seeing some DE's getting multiple sacks against equal or higher level competition and could easily be in the high 20's for sacks vs a whole season of non gutted teams.
 
Ksera
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Originally posted by riccor25
Originally posted by bluto

my DE is lvl 27 in a BBB league and is and agility based build.

last year against competition that was mostly a few levels higher, he lead his conference in sacks and hurries (25 and 35...so not huge numbers)

this year, because he boosted where many hadn't, he's right around the league average of 27th lvl and he's got 90+ agi and 60+ speed and he's much less effective (9 sacks so far, but pretty much none against any tough LTs).

admittedly, i've sacrificed strength and tackling thusfar...but i'm not sure if adding strength now is the way...or perservering with his build-plan (since it may be too late to change now anyways...)and going to 100+ agi and 70+ spd...

...or now do i need more strength to reactivate his rushing?

lost.


If I had the cash to really experiment with my equipment I might could answer this in a couple weeks, but it would take millions of fake money, and 1800 flex. I would really like to try taking all my agility gear and turning it into speed, and then see how that works in a sim against a good LT. If that doesn't net results then I would switch to strength gear to test that. The one nice thing about my average/crappy build is that I can get one attribute into the 90s with equipment.


I have already done this, Both speed and agility are done. I have equipment to try both a 100+ agility based build w/ 70 speed and 65 strength and 100+ speed w/ 70 agility 65 strength. shut down by a level 35 OT with 55 agility and 40 speed the 1st time and the second shit down by a level 37 with 50 agility and 42 speed.

 
BiggerBlue
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Originally posted by Ksera
Originally posted by riccor25

Originally posted by bluto


my DE is lvl 27 in a BBB league and is and agility based build.

last year against competition that was mostly a few levels higher, he lead his conference in sacks and hurries (25 and 35...so not huge numbers)

this year, because he boosted where many hadn't, he's right around the league average of 27th lvl and he's got 90+ agi and 60+ speed and he's much less effective (9 sacks so far, but pretty much none against any tough LTs).

admittedly, i've sacrificed strength and tackling thusfar...but i'm not sure if adding strength now is the way...or perservering with his build-plan (since it may be too late to change now anyways...)and going to 100+ agi and 70+ spd...

...or now do i need more strength to reactivate his rushing?

lost.


If I had the cash to really experiment with my equipment I might could answer this in a couple weeks, but it would take millions of fake money, and 1800 flex. I would really like to try taking all my agility gear and turning it into speed, and then see how that works in a sim against a good LT. If that doesn't net results then I would switch to strength gear to test that. The one nice thing about my average/crappy build is that I can get one attribute into the 90s with equipment.


I have already done this, Both speed and agility are done. I have equipment to try both a 100+ agility based build w/ 70 speed and 65 strength and 100+ speed w/ 70 agility 65 strength. shut down by a level 35 OT with 55 agility and 40 speed the 1st time and the second shit down by a level 37 with 50 agility and 42 speed.



My lvl 35 DE puts up 4 tackles and 1 hurried against a lvl 45 OL
 
ChicagoTRS
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Originally posted by BiggerBlue
Originally posted by Ksera

Originally posted by riccor25


Originally posted by bluto



my DE is lvl 27 in a BBB league and is and agility based build.

last year against competition that was mostly a few levels higher, he lead his conference in sacks and hurries (25 and 35...so not huge numbers)

this year, because he boosted where many hadn't, he's right around the league average of 27th lvl and he's got 90+ agi and 60+ speed and he's much less effective (9 sacks so far, but pretty much none against any tough LTs).

admittedly, i've sacrificed strength and tackling thusfar...but i'm not sure if adding strength now is the way...or perservering with his build-plan (since it may be too late to change now anyways...)and going to 100+ agi and 70+ spd...

...or now do i need more strength to reactivate his rushing?

lost.


If I had the cash to really experiment with my equipment I might could answer this in a couple weeks, but it would take millions of fake money, and 1800 flex. I would really like to try taking all my agility gear and turning it into speed, and then see how that works in a sim against a good LT. If that doesn't net results then I would switch to strength gear to test that. The one nice thing about my average/crappy build is that I can get one attribute into the 90s with equipment.


I have already done this, Both speed and agility are done. I have equipment to try both a 100+ agility based build w/ 70 speed and 65 strength and 100+ speed w/ 70 agility 65 strength. shut down by a level 35 OT with 55 agility and 40 speed the 1st time and the second shit down by a level 37 with 50 agility and 42 speed.



My lvl 35 DE puts up 4 tackles and 1 hurried against a lvl 45 OL


The hurry was against a lvl36 OT...
 
Signalsgt
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Originally posted by
The hurry was against a lvl36 OT...


Oh for the love of god. http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=304682&pbp_id=10757727

Jesus Christ, your just six shades of stupid aren't you BB? How is this ever going to be addressed when you keep lying about your production?

How many times have you been Owned across what, three threads now?
 
RMiller517
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Originally posted by BiggerBlue

Yes, LOLs. That is why I'm happy with my DE actually producing and you he-man wanna-be is whining like a little girl about your DE putting up 0s.


you got 7 sacks against a level 8 OT. my grandmother could have run around him. congratulations. http://images.etsy.com/all_images/e/e52/dcd/il_430xN.9607258.jpg

Originally posted by BiggerBlue

Also, I find it funny that GLB people still don't realize when your attribute is above 70s in spd/agi as the DE the Law of Diminishing Return greatly applies,


there are no diminishing returns in GLB. going from 11-12 is the same as going from 98-99. it just costs more to do it with SPs. theres ways to level a skill w/o SPs though.
Last edited Jan 27, 2009 08:30:34
 
Sarg01
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Originally posted by BiggerBlue

Some people here expect DE with 25 str, 90 spd, 70 agi to excel and rack up sacks. Then why not expect OT with 25 spd, 90 str, and 70 blc to pancake your ass?




I'm getting really tired of hearing that line. Very, very few have 25/90/70. I've got a 70/80/85 guy with 25 points (not skill points, total points) of pass rush SAs who does nothing in competitive games - but does really tear up gutted teams. I suppose I should be happy for that as I might get a trophy out of it. He has 1, count it, 1 sack in games where the other team was within 100 points.

 
BiggerBlue
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Originally posted by Signalsgt
Originally posted by

The hurry was against a lvl36 OT...


Oh for the love of god. http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=304682&pbp_id=10757727

Jesus Christ, your just six shades of stupid aren't you BB? How is this ever going to be addressed when you keep lying about your production?

How many times have you been Owned across what, three threads now?


If by "owned" you mean irrational whines by you, then yes, I guess I've been "owned"

I've try to kept quiet here because of my dominance over you in another thread, but since you want to open yourself up here too.

My 3 simple refutations to your idiocracy.

1) YOU claim DEs are worthless against equal or better competition. I HAVE SHOWN that's not the case. A DE that's well build can shed block or hurry a QB (possibly a sack) around equal or better OT. Now this does not mean all the time (something you irrationally want), but I'm happy that DE can do that from time to time (which is the reasonable expectation)

2) YOU claim DEs are being held up all game still. I HAVE SHOWN shed block happens more than you think.

3) YOU claim DEs should get 4-6 sacks a game regardless. I'm merely saying you're nuts.
 
BiggerBlue
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Originally posted by Sarg01
Originally posted by BiggerBlue


Some people here expect DE with 25 str, 90 spd, 70 agi to excel and rack up sacks. Then why not expect OT with 25 spd, 90 str, and 70 blc to pancake your ass?




I'm getting really tired of hearing that line. Very, very few have 25/90/70. I've got a 70/80/85 guy with 25 points (not skill points, total points) of pass rush SAs who does nothing in competitive games - but does really tear up gutted teams. I suppose I should be happy for that as I might get a trophy out of it. He has 1, count it, 1 sack in games where the other team was within 100 points.




I was going to wait for you DE fantasy freaks to figure this out on your own, but oh well, I see logic has no place here. It's NOT just strength on top of Speed and Agility guys. Bort has redone the DE calculations that it takes a broad combination of well-build attributes AND SAs to make your DE effective. No it's not just a "balance build", but it won't be like the old days when you just focus and excel on a few and expect to rack in tackles and sacks.

I've found (and I'm open to sane suggestions) that Vision needs to be at 45-50 to excel in Run Support, Stamina needs to be at 50-55 to have your DE be a factor all game long. FS at least 8 to get a big jump my DE has, TV at least 10. I've up my Wall and Base to 6 and now I'm shedding block just fine and pushing them out of the way from time to time.

Bort has altered the equation that's for sure, but he has done it reasonably in my opinion to prevent cookie-cut builds (and yes that includes just focusing on 3 attributes instead of traditional 2). They are not hard to figure out once you test a few things.

but hey, if you want to keep screaming that you have 3 attributes over 70s and therefore you should get 4-6 sacks a game, then don't whine why Bort simply chooses to ignore you.




 
madmal
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Thanks for the advise BiggerBlue. I'll try that.
 
Sarg01
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Originally posted by BiggerBlue


but hey, if you want to keep screaming that you have 3 attributes over 70s and therefore you should get 4-6 sacks a game, then don't whine why Bort simply chooses to ignore you.



You're the one who suggested that the DEs complaining had low strength. I'm simplying pointing out that's not always - or even usually - the case.
 
BiggerBlue
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I am suggesting that DEs who complaint have poor builds. In the specific case you mentioned I was answering a DE builder who thinks 90spd/90agi are all you needed to put up tackles/sacks. I replied don't forget about strength.

But if you want the whole scoop on how to get a successful DE I would say:

1) Second cap strength
2) Spd/Agi up to 70-80 (not necessarily more)
3) Vision up to 45-50 (helps recognize plays, especially rushing plays)
4) Stamina 50-55 (I noticed my DE was only effective in 1st/3rd quarters until I up it to 50+ and now he's putting up numbers throughout all 4 quarters.)
5) First Step and Tunnel Vision to at least 7 (TV 9-10 preferred)
6) Wall and Strong Base to at least 6

I've seem enough DE with these settings that have no trouble putting up sacks, tackles, and going up against higher level OTs.
 
iMan
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Originally posted by BiggerBlue
I am suggesting that DEs who complaint have poor builds. In the specific case you mentioned I was answering a DE builder who thinks 90spd/90agi are all you needed to put up tackles/sacks. I replied don't forget about strength.

But if you want the whole scoop on how to get a successful DE I would say:

1) Second cap strength
2) Spd/Agi up to 70-80 (not necessarily more)
3) Vision up to 45-50 (helps recognize plays, especially rushing plays)
4) Stamina 50-55 (I noticed my DE was only effective in 1st/3rd quarters until I up it to 50+ and now he's putting up numbers throughout all 4 quarters.)
5) First Step and Tunnel Vision to at least 7 (TV 9-10 preferred)
6) Wall and Strong Base to at least 6

I've seem enough DE with these settings that have no trouble putting up sacks, tackles, and going up against higher level OTs.


First Step looks like it is the key to success this season
shedding blocks is almost impossible this season
one of your best bet is to get high speed, high FS and high TV to avoid the OT altogether
its working for me.
it also seems to work for Jrrry as that's what he is preaching this season
 
iMan
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Originally posted by BiggerBlue
Originally posted by Signalsgt

Originally posted by


The hurry was against a lvl36 OT...


Oh for the love of god. http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=304682&pbp_id=10757727

Jesus Christ, your just six shades of stupid aren't you BB? How is this ever going to be addressed when you keep lying about your production?

How many times have you been Owned across what, three threads now?


If by "owned" you mean irrational whines by you, then yes, I guess I've been "owned"

I've try to kept quiet here because of my dominance over you in another thread, but since you want to open yourself up here too.

My 3 simple refutations to your idiocracy.

1) YOU claim DEs are worthless against equal or better competition. I HAVE SHOWN that's not the case. A DE that's well build can shed block or hurry a QB (possibly a sack) around equal or better OT. Now this does not mean all the time (something you irrationally want), but I'm happy that DE can do that from time to time (which is the reasonable expectation)

2) YOU claim DEs are being held up all game still. I HAVE SHOWN shed block happens more than you think.

3) YOU claim DEs should get 4-6 sacks a game regardless. I'm merely saying you're nuts.


well i completely disagree about the block shedding
it almost impossible this season
 
BiggerBlue
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Originally posted by iMan
Originally posted by BiggerBlue

Originally posted by Signalsgt


Originally posted by



The hurry was against a lvl36 OT...


Oh for the love of god. http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=304682&pbp_id=10757727

Jesus Christ, your just six shades of stupid aren't you BB? How is this ever going to be addressed when you keep lying about your production?

How many times have you been Owned across what, three threads now?


If by "owned" you mean irrational whines by you, then yes, I guess I've been "owned"

I've try to kept quiet here because of my dominance over you in another thread, but since you want to open yourself up here too.

My 3 simple refutations to your idiocracy.

1) YOU claim DEs are worthless against equal or better competition. I HAVE SHOWN that's not the case. A DE that's well build can shed block or hurry a QB (possibly a sack) around equal or better OT. Now this does not mean all the time (something you irrationally want), but I'm happy that DE can do that from time to time (which is the reasonable expectation)

2) YOU claim DEs are being held up all game still. I HAVE SHOWN shed block happens more than you think.

3) YOU claim DEs should get 4-6 sacks a game regardless. I'm merely saying you're nuts.


well i completely disagree about the block shedding
it almost impossible this season


What are your Wall and Strong Base SAs?

I've notice my DE couldn't Shed an ant until I upped those to 6, and I'm not shedding left and right but I am at least shedding them in occasion

Last edited Jan 27, 2009 20:31:10
 
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