Warrior General Games

best way?

1) more carrying
2) more strength
3) avoid fumble EQ
4) various SAs/VAs
5) other

It's kinda two-fold.

1) Have a good not-fumble roll (largely carrying based, obviously +% not fumble is a big help and there is also Cover Up SA)
2) Have a good break tackle roll (strength + carrying + SA based)

2 is because If the defender doesn't meet a certain threshold with their tackle roll then they don't even get a force fumble roll.

Those are great points for dot creation but if you've already got an older dot whose SP flexibility is all but gone, make sure your ST Coord is putting some quality dots in the BW positions. They need to be fast enough to get in front, with enough STR/BLK/AGL to hold the block long enough to keep your guy from getting lit up. If gunners are getting clean shots at full speed at your returner, there's just not alot your dot can do.

1) yes, i don't see why anyone would build a returner nowdays with less than 90 carrying and 15 steady grip. the more the better, could honestly be a #1 attribute depending on what you're going for with your kr/pr. i would try to rebuild for mid 90s carrying if i could today.
2) yes, and you can sacrifice agility to do so (*GASP*, right?). honestly though, for returners, feels like you can afford to knock a few points off of agility. wouldn't build for more than 90. 88 might be the sweet spot. with the Special Teamer VA your acceleration will be just fine. beyond that, Quick Cut to 5 should be enough if you have movement concerns. really don't worry about the firing rate of SAs going down if agility goes down though... the str and carrying make up for it, and then give you ball security.
3) GOD NO
4) wouldn't bother with Cover Up at all, like romo said, just go for tackle breaking/fakes. combat the problem by preventing the problem from happening in the first place. 90+ carrying and 15 steady grip seem mandatory for a returner just performance-wise because carrying is so frigging awesome for getting stuff to fire. carrying could be taken as high as speed if you really wanted to go there, while also clipping points off of agility and vision to get strength up to around 80

if you're building a mid-160s speed returner, none of this really applies tho. there won't be enough points to go around and that kind of dot will definitely have to sacrifice either SA firing rates or ball security in some respect. if you're only building for no more than 100 base speed, all of this should be doable

I support most of this posted here. Best attack is to eliminate getting your returner nailed with head on collisions. Those seem to be the #1 cause of them. Carrying up high is needed. Anything less than 85 is getting risky. And breaking tackles is better than any form of "cover up SA" as it eliminates the need for the "fumble roll". I just retired a returner with 88 carrying, steady grip, and lots of BT EQ that only fumbled 19 times in his career. Not because his numbers were godly, but because he got good blocking to help keep those pesky headon's from happening a lot. So more carrying would've lowered that a bit... but not tons. Only 19 over that many returns is pretty good.

good stuff. thanks.

suppose because of where the build is now he has to pick between maxing Slippery and Steady Grip.

would it be better to have 15 SG and only 10 or 11 in Slippery?

Originally posted by fogie55
good stuff. thanks.

suppose because of where the build is now he has to pick between maxing Slippery and Steady Grip.

would it be better to have 15 SG and only 10 or 11 in Slippery?

Most of what was said is bad advice. What AZ fan said is the most important thing you need to consider and it doesn't have to do with your build--make sure you've got good blockers.

For your build, 90 carrying and 75-80 strength is fine. What you do need to do if you plan on ever playing in WL to is get a piece of not fumble % AEQ and put some points into Cover Up if you can. You can have a returner with a good not fumble score and a good break tackle/fake score if you use good building practices. As for your VAs, Steady Grip should be 5th or 6th on your list. Special Teamer, Return Man, Quick Feet, and Slippery should all come first and be at 15. From there, you can choose between OTK, Steady Grip, and some investment in Second Wind (I prefer OTK).

Originally posted by Longhornfan1024
Most of what was said is bad advice. What AZ fan said is the most important thing you need to consider and it doesn't have to do with your build--make sure you've got good blockers.

For your build, 90 carrying and 75-80 strength is fine. What you do need to do if you plan on ever playing in WL to is get a piece of not fumble % AEQ and put some points into Cover Up if you can. You can have a returner with a good not fumble score and a good break tackle/fake score if you use good building practices. As for your VAs, Steady Grip should be 5th or 6th on your list. Special Teamer, Return Man, Quick Feet, and Slippery should all come first and be at 15. From there, you can choose between OTK, Steady Grip, and some investment in Second Wind (I prefer OTK).

Agreed

The best returner with crap blockers will fumble

my bad on the 15 steady grip i just checked my own returner and he has 6 in that and 6 in OTK
really though, not fumble % gear? i would just build for more strength tbh

Originally posted by Pen15
my bad on the 15 steady grip i just checked my own returner and he has 6 in that and 6 in OTK
really though, not fumble % gear? i would just build for more strength tbh

Taking strength from 80 to 90 is something like a 9% increase in strength and it costs a number of SPs. Using your CEQ into AF% is a 12% increase in strength, carrying, and all other aspects of the AF score, including SAs.

too late on both AEQ/CEQ fronts, but good thought for next time

current VAs are pretty much where LHF said--15 each in SpTmr, Ret Man and Q Feet and was planning for points to start going into Slippery next. level 60 right now. dot put a lot into jumping so strength was sacrificed and carrying is lower than it would be otherwise. does pretty good on KRs but not so great on PRs. Not sure if that's all about protection or whether diving tackles (which he is great at breaking) are more common on KRs than PRs. Could be some of both.

Originally posted by fogie55
too late on both AEQ/CEQ fronts, but good thought for next time

current VAs are pretty much where LHF said--15 each in SpTmr, Ret Man and Q Feet and was planning for points to start going into Slippery next. level 60 right now. dot put a lot into jumping so strength was sacrificed and carrying is lower than it would be otherwise. does pretty good on KRs but not so great on PRs. Not sure if that's all about protection or whether diving tackles (which he is great at breaking) are more common on KRs than PRs. Could be some of both.



Never too late to change CEQ unless you don't want to spend the flex. Link the dot and open the build. Will be better to help you better that way.

Originally posted by Longhornfan1024
Never too late to change CEQ unless you don't want to spend the flex. Link the dot and open the build. Will be better to help you better that way.

and give away the secrets of my jumping returnman experiment? just kidding, i don't mind as i think he's already screwed up beyond salvage. stopped multi-training way too early so he would be guaranteed 4 fully upgraded pieces of AEQ... in retrospect I think that was a bad plan.

will open for a couple days

http://goallineblitz.com/game/player.pl?player_id=4376310

Originally posted by fogie55
and give away the secrets of my jumping returnman experiment? just kidding, i don't mind as i think he's already screwed up beyond salvage. stopped multi-training way too early so he would be guaranteed 4 fully upgraded pieces of AEQ... in retrospect I think that was a bad plan.

will open for a couple days

http://goallineblitz.com/game/player.pl?player_id=4376310

Yeah, you'll never get carrying, strength, stamina, vision, and confidence up enough on that build to avoid fumbles. The higher jumping is a nice idea, but ending up at 60 would be better than 90.