Warrior General Games

What's the difference between say 85 vision and 130 vision? Especially for a non QB?
What is the outcome of super high vision? Does vision help break tackles? I just don't understand vision. Sufficient vision would let you see the hole.. or see oncoming defenders.. so what is superior vision supposed to do? Does anyone catch my drift? What if you had vision as your main attribute... is vision 'intelligence'?

Someone explain vision... as best as possible

Basically, Vision is a player's ability to recognize what is happening in a play and adjust/react to it. I'll give an example.

Say you are a GLB LB playing in the MLB slot. The ball is snapped. You don't start out knowing what the O play is, so you have to decide how to react. Figuring that out is handled in GLB by using a check (or random roll) that is modified by your Vision attribute. The higher your Vision, the more likely you are to pass the check. Once you pass the check, you know that it is a pass or run play and can react accordingly. If you fail the check, you have to try to pass another one. This continues until you pass. If you fail several in a row, you will be noticeably slow to react and will be out of position to make a play.

Thus, Vision is an important attribute for D players. In addition to helping read the play at the snap, it helps to avoid being faked, and helps to see if a player makes a cut (either a receiver running a route, or a ball carrier running). Vision is also important for some O players. QBs need Vision to probably read the coverage and go thru their progressions. OL need vision to recognize blitzers and pick them up.

Generally speaking, most players will perform better with more Vision. However, there is a trade off. It does not do a player good to recognize the play on the first tick, if they have are not fast or agile enough to close the gap or hit the hole. The key is to find out how much Vision is needed for a player to pass the vision checks for his position well and not to waste SPs on getting more than that.

^that's great and all, but...

Originally posted by Purple Loki
What's the difference between say 85 vision and 130 vision? Especially for a non QB?
What is the outcome of super high vision? Does vision help break tackles? I just don't understand vision. Sufficient vision would let you see the hole.. or see oncoming defenders.. so what is superior vision supposed to do? Does anyone catch my drift? What if you had vision as your main attribute... is vision 'intelligence'?

what about that?

Originally posted by Pen15
what about that?

He asked alot of questions, but ended it like so...

Originally posted by Purple Loki


Someone explain vision... as best as possible

I explained vision. Feel free to answer the rest of the OP's questions if you want to. The reality is that most of the specifics are unknown. People have opinions, some substantiated, some not as much. I don't give opinions much anymore as people get butt hurt if their opinion differs from mine. So I stick to giving answers that as accurate as possible without opinion. That means I don't answer a lot of questions that I think I know the answer to.

lol well i'm just curious too if much testing has been done with super high vision

Originally posted by Pen15
lol well i'm just curious too if much testing has been done with super high vision

Guess not.

I kind of addressed this in my response. You need enough Vision to pass the various vision checks quickly and to avoid fakes. However, if you don't have the other attributes to make the play after passing the vision check, then all that vision is pointless.

What position are you asking about? What attributes would you give up to get to 130 Vision? Since you would need to invest at least 25 points of your EQ upgrades into Vision to hit that (and probably more) and since most people put their EQ into Speed, I assume you are giving up Speed to get that Vision.

Let's look at a CB. Is 130 Speed good enough to cover WRs with 155 - 165 Speed so long as you pass the Vision check first time? The answer is that it depends on the route the WR is running. You will not be able to cover a WR on a streak route, even with him not successfully faking you. That big of a speed difference will look like a CPU CB trying to cover a WL WR. However, if he is running a crossing route, you may be fine, as you should see the cut and react immediately. I'm sure you can find a case where 130 Vision is not horrible, but I think you would be better off with 155 Speed and 100 Vision than 125 Speed and 130 Vision. You can battle fakes with the Super Vision SA, Avoid Fake % gear, and/or the Field General VA. You can't really make yourself faster, other than the Track Star VA, and it gives you only 60% of the gain that FG does for the same investment of VPs.

^ So when do you recommend you stop putting points into vision?

...

And what happens if you put more?

Originally posted by Purple Loki
^ So when do you recommend you stop putting points into vision?


Personally, I think 90 Vision is plenty for any D dot to pass vision checks. I like 1 AF% AE, to help battle fakes. Any more than that feels like I spent SPs on Vision that I could have spent on something else. Some people like more, and they could be right. I can only say what I think from what I have seen.

Originally posted by

And what happens if you put more?


Man, I am repeating myself over and over again. If you put more in Vision, you give up points in something else. The ramifications of that depends upon where you give up those points. If you give up Speed, you run slower; If you give up Tackling, you probably miss more tackles, etc....

Vision checks are pass / fail. It isn't like Tackling where the higher your tackling roll, the better your chance to pass a subsequent force fumble roll. If a particular Vision check would be passed with 80 Vision, then having 100 Vision gives you the same result.

My responses are really D focused, since that is what I focus on in this game. Perhaps a QB's Vision rolls have a quality factor that helps their subsequent pass attempt's quality. I don't know. However, from my understanding of how GLB works, Vision checks are pass / fail.

And I can kinda back Plankton up somewhat. Start with what position your dot plays and what he needs to be successful at that job. Therefore a QB needs more vision than a OT. A Safety needs more vision than a DT. How much? Well... if you have 130 vision on a dot, I'm willing to bet you've seriously sacrificed at another, more important, skill you dot needs to succeed. Other than a QB, I don't think any dot really needs more than 100 vision... and even then that should only be for a very small number of positions (Safeties come to mind... maybe a returner... maybe.) Other than a QB, I've never taken a dot to 100 vision. Took some of my safeties to high 90's... but other skills need SP love too... like speed, agility, tackling, jumping, strength, stamina, confidence... you get the idea.
To me, it's more about defining the order of importance of a dot's skills... then assigning a number I would "like" to achieve at those skills. Make sure I get the top skill right... then do what I can to get the rest to where I want them. Vision generally falls down the list below other, more important, skills. Even a QB, who needs great vision, doesn't generally put any SP's into that skill until they've addressed Throwing and Strength at the very least. Hope this helps you.

Super high vision on O-dots has not been shown to be helpful

Super high vision on D-dots has been shown to be helpful in shutting down the passing game

You must always consider what you are giving up in order to get vision higher, that will be the biggest problem with pumping vision.

Originally posted by Time Trial
Super high vision on O-dots has not been shown to be helpful

Super high vision on D-dots has been shown to be helpful in shutting down the passing game

You must always consider what you are giving up in order to get vision higher, that will be the biggest problem with pumping vision.

Quick and easy response that I agree with. For my offense I will take my QB to 90ish and my HBs at 40; everyone I target 60. My P I will hit the 90s and maybe my K. Our defense is around 90 for all but the D line.

130 Vision on any player including a QB is a waste.

this BUT---see I always have at least one. But if the dot is designed to do a specific job( I.E zone mike LB) then a vision package with vision higher than the norm is required by the nature of the coding. Rare yes but I have seen proper higher vision-not crazy nat. like 130 but higher than normal excel based on job type.

Originally posted by skibodragula
this BUT---see I always have at least one. But if the dot is designed to do a specific job( I.E zone mike LB) then a vision package with vision higher than the norm is required by the nature of the coding. Rare yes but I have seen proper higher vision-not crazy nat. like 130 but higher than normal excel based on job type.

The wisdom of the green one.

Originally posted by skibodragula
this BUT---see I always have at least one. But if the dot is designed to do a specific job( I.E zone mike LB) then a vision package with vision higher than the norm is required by the nature of the coding. Rare yes but I have seen proper higher vision-not crazy nat. like 130 but higher than normal excel based on job type.

Teach me oh wise frog. Jk.