is it better to punt and only get maybe 5 or 10 yard net or go for it on 4th every time?
is the morale loss on failing on 4th down too much?
is the morale loss on failing on 4th down too much?
Forum > FAQ's, Player Guides and Newbie Help > Punting vs. Going on 4th at very low levels
Novus
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Originally posted by Jim Dangle
is it better to punt and only get maybe 5 or 10 yard net or go for it on 4th every time?
is the morale loss on failing on 4th down too much?
I'm a LOT more aggressive on going for it on 4th down at lower levels. The whole point of punting is to flip the field, but low-level punters simply don't have the ability to flip the field. So, if you're backed up at your own 20 and punt, the other team might get the ball back at your 30... or might even return the punt for a TD, since special-teams coverage is such an RNG thing at low levels as well.
As for morale... yeah, you'll lose morale from failing on 4th down. But you know what? You'll lose morale from giving up a punt-return TD or a TD on a short-field from a sucky punt too, so it's kind of a wash.
There are still times when you should absolutely punt it, of course. (4th & 20? Punt, dude.) But think outside the box. Ask yourself if gaining 10 yards of field position is worth giving up the ball. If your defense is hot stuff, it might be worth it to punt and play Tressel-ball. If your offense is awesome, then go for it and keep your strongest unit on the field. Just gotta think each situation through.
is it better to punt and only get maybe 5 or 10 yard net or go for it on 4th every time?
is the morale loss on failing on 4th down too much?
I'm a LOT more aggressive on going for it on 4th down at lower levels. The whole point of punting is to flip the field, but low-level punters simply don't have the ability to flip the field. So, if you're backed up at your own 20 and punt, the other team might get the ball back at your 30... or might even return the punt for a TD, since special-teams coverage is such an RNG thing at low levels as well.
As for morale... yeah, you'll lose morale from failing on 4th down. But you know what? You'll lose morale from giving up a punt-return TD or a TD on a short-field from a sucky punt too, so it's kind of a wash.
There are still times when you should absolutely punt it, of course. (4th & 20? Punt, dude.) But think outside the box. Ask yourself if gaining 10 yards of field position is worth giving up the ball. If your defense is hot stuff, it might be worth it to punt and play Tressel-ball. If your offense is awesome, then go for it and keep your strongest unit on the field. Just gotta think each situation through.
This is something I am torn about. Everyone (of some merit) says not to bother punting. However I feel wrong going for it on 4th and 15.
Originally posted by Novus
So, if you're backed up at your own 20 and punt, the other team might get the ball back at your 30... or might even return the punt for a TD, since special-teams coverage is such an RNG thing at low levels as well.
Your average level 1 punter will beable to boot the ball about 20 yards. If your STC can work some magic, it is not very difficult to force a fair catch.
Like Novus said, put your strong side on the field. If your O is the strength of the team, be aggressive and go 4 or 5 wide or something, get the ball down the field and give your WRs a shot. If you have a "no games" defense, I would punt it off and unleash your 11 animals on the field.
Once You hit like 62ish punting 30ish strength (35ish) yrd punts, I would boot it almost every 4th and 10+, but then you must beware of Punt Return TDs. Thats just me though.
Originally posted by Novus
So, if you're backed up at your own 20 and punt, the other team might get the ball back at your 30... or might even return the punt for a TD, since special-teams coverage is such an RNG thing at low levels as well.
Your average level 1 punter will beable to boot the ball about 20 yards. If your STC can work some magic, it is not very difficult to force a fair catch.
Like Novus said, put your strong side on the field. If your O is the strength of the team, be aggressive and go 4 or 5 wide or something, get the ball down the field and give your WRs a shot. If you have a "no games" defense, I would punt it off and unleash your 11 animals on the field.
Once You hit like 62ish punting 30ish strength (35ish) yrd punts, I would boot it almost every 4th and 10+, but then you must beware of Punt Return TDs. Thats just me though.
fogie55
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IMO the morale loss from going for it is too high as scaled to low level players... later on, when dots have some confidence etc not a big deal, but for rookie/prep/pee wee guys it can cause morale spirals really quickly if you go for it on 4th and don't make it several times. the penalty seems higher if you are in the RZ, so go for the FG in rookie. also, the penalty seems to be a bit higher on the guy who actually has the chance to convert (the ball carrier or targeted receiver), so if you do go for it spread the ball around.
on strategy that works is to have a non-punter punt at rookie level. then you never have to worry about morale loss from a failed conversion and very rarely will there be a returnable punt. you'll only get about half the punt distance though.
all that said, there's rarely any reason NOT to go for it on 4th and inches or 4th and 1. the % of making it with a QB sneak or inside handoff is pretty high.
on strategy that works is to have a non-punter punt at rookie level. then you never have to worry about morale loss from a failed conversion and very rarely will there be a returnable punt. you'll only get about half the punt distance though.
all that said, there's rarely any reason NOT to go for it on 4th and inches or 4th and 1. the % of making it with a QB sneak or inside handoff is pretty high.
darncat
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aint nuthin wrong with going for a 4th and 20 lol
seriously, if i am at the opponents 30 and i have 4th and 20
and my kicker can't yet make a 47 yarder, then im going for it.
i will not punt from the opponents 30something yard line. thats just me.
weve scored touchdowns, kept drives alive and won games
on 4th and 20 plays before! but i can never remember a game where i said-
"tg we punted from their 31 it saved us the game." or vice versa.
to me thats just agressive but smart football.
but to go for 4th and 20 from your OWN 30, now thats just stupid.
the AI has to be set up to do smart and not dumb things lol. thats the trick.
i'll give u an ex: if we got 4th and 1 from our own 40, we'll go for it.
but if we have 4th and 1 from our own 40 and are up 3 with 2 min to play,
we will punt the ball and play D to keep you out of FG range.
it can take a lot of work to get the AI set right, but at least once its done its done...
seriously, if i am at the opponents 30 and i have 4th and 20
and my kicker can't yet make a 47 yarder, then im going for it.
i will not punt from the opponents 30something yard line. thats just me.
weve scored touchdowns, kept drives alive and won games
on 4th and 20 plays before! but i can never remember a game where i said-
"tg we punted from their 31 it saved us the game." or vice versa.
to me thats just agressive but smart football.
but to go for 4th and 20 from your OWN 30, now thats just stupid.
the AI has to be set up to do smart and not dumb things lol. thats the trick.
i'll give u an ex: if we got 4th and 1 from our own 40, we'll go for it.
but if we have 4th and 1 from our own 40 and are up 3 with 2 min to play,
we will punt the ball and play D to keep you out of FG range.
it can take a lot of work to get the AI set right, but at least once its done its done...
Edited by darncat on Jan 30, 2013 16:06:37
Edited by darncat on Jan 30, 2013 16:05:59
Novus
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Originally posted by darncat
aint nuthin wrong with going for a 4th and 20 lol
Did you read the rest of my post at all? There's a reason I ended it with "Just gotta think each situation through."
lol
aint nuthin wrong with going for a 4th and 20 lol
Did you read the rest of my post at all? There's a reason I ended it with "Just gotta think each situation through."
lol
Originally posted by darncat
i'll give u an ex: if we got 4th and 1 from our own 40, we'll go for it.
but if we have 4th and 1 from our own 40 and are up 3 with 2 min to play,
we will punt the ball and play D
Now that is stupid imo,
in PW/Rookie,
you are 1 QB rush away from a td, hell, thats if he doesn't score on the PR.
i'll give u an ex: if we got 4th and 1 from our own 40, we'll go for it.
but if we have 4th and 1 from our own 40 and are up 3 with 2 min to play,
we will punt the ball and play D
Now that is stupid imo,
in PW/Rookie,
you are 1 QB rush away from a td, hell, thats if he doesn't score on the PR.
fogie55
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Originally posted by darncat
unlike you i know how to set up a defense.
and good luck returning a punt on us lol
there's only one viewable game this season and in it your team did allow a punt return for a TD
http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=2261325&pbp_id=521441
unlike you i know how to set up a defense.
and good luck returning a punt on us lol
there's only one viewable game this season and in it your team did allow a punt return for a TD
http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=2261325&pbp_id=521441
suske127
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Originally posted by fogie55
there's only one viewable game this season and in it your team did allow a punt return for a TD
http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=2261325&pbp_id=521441
there's only one viewable game this season and in it your team did allow a punt return for a TD
http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=2261325&pbp_id=521441
darncat
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had to adjust the ST DC for our new punter who at level 13 is somehow out-kicking our lev 19 guy from last season {?!?)
last season, we had to use very slow guys in key spots on the punt team else they would over run the return man.
in any event, we don't give up many points, even against team who run up the stats on everyone else...
so theres no way im gonna risk handing the ball to the other team 5 yards from field goal range up by 1 with a minute to play.
not when we have never given up a game winning drive. not when, in general, teams don't get a FG when they
start on their own side of the field against us, especially not with only a minute or two to play in the game.
with a D and ST like ours, i will trust them to stop a team in 2 minutes every time. if we didn't have
such strong defensive players, maybe i would think differently. but, come to think of it,
that was exactly the point i was trying to make...
last season, we had to use very slow guys in key spots on the punt team else they would over run the return man.
in any event, we don't give up many points, even against team who run up the stats on everyone else...
so theres no way im gonna risk handing the ball to the other team 5 yards from field goal range up by 1 with a minute to play.
not when we have never given up a game winning drive. not when, in general, teams don't get a FG when they
start on their own side of the field against us, especially not with only a minute or two to play in the game.
with a D and ST like ours, i will trust them to stop a team in 2 minutes every time. if we didn't have
such strong defensive players, maybe i would think differently. but, come to think of it,
that was exactly the point i was trying to make...
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