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Forum > FAQ's, Player Guides and Newbie Help > Reduced returns for skills similar to special abilities?
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Oren74
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ok, just doing some homework...and wondering if there is a certain skill point level to results in diminishing returns once you hit it...similar to 11+ for Special Abilities.

Is it 160? Is is 165 5 pts better than 160 like 160 is 5 pts better than 155?

Thanks, still a newb after all these years
 
Plankton
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Short answer - No, There are no hard coded diminishing returns on attributes.

However, there are levels for each attribute / position that raising it will not have a noticeable impact. These change based on the position / archetype and what he is built to do as well as the level of the player and his competition. Also, spending SPs on one attribute means you can not spend the same on another, so there are also levels at which the return might not be diminished, but the trade off makes it not worth it.
 
PeeJJK
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Originally posted by Plankton
However, there are levels for each attribute / position that raising it will not have a noticeable impact.


Example?
 
Plankton
OPL4Lyfe
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Originally posted by Vic Koenning
Example?


I have not seen a noticeable performance improvement from taking Confidence from 50 to 60 on D dots, so I do not do it. That is an example of what I am referring to.
Edited by Plankton on Dec 12, 2012 15:09:37
 
lightball20
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I think that would be considered diminishing returns.
 
Plankton
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Originally posted by lightball20
I think that would be considered diminishing returns.


Not really. Diminishing returns means that adding a point gives less than the point added before. Let's consider the Shed Block SA.

We know that it adds a fixed number per level to the break block roll for the first 10 levels of the SA. Let's assume that it adds 4 points to that roll per level up to 10. Thus, with 10 in the SA, it would add 40 to the roll. At 11, the number that it adds is diminished. Thus, it might only add 3 to the break block roll. At 12, it is further diminished and might only add 2.

However, it is very possible that even tho 12 adds less than 10, that going to 12 and getting that extra 2 to the break block would give you a noticeable improvement in your odds to break blocks and allow you to get more hurries, sacks, and tackles. If that were the case, it would be subject to diminishing returns, but still have a noticeable impact.

The opposite could be true for attributes. Let's say (for argument's sake) that adding 10 Agility adds 4 to your break block roll. Let's also say that with 100 Agility (plus alot of other variables) you are breaking your blocks well and getting 4 Hurries and 2 Sacks per game. You add 10 more Agility hoping to improve your stats even more. That would add 4 to your break block roll regardless of how high your Agility already was (no diminishing returns on attributes). However, because your break block score was already very good, the increase does not net you any more Hurries or Sacks. This would be a case where altho the attributes do not suffer diminishing returns, the increase yielded no noticeable impact.
 
Homage
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There are no diminishing returns for attributes. Any talk of that is just bullshit. However, there are certain attributes which have effects on multipliers such as morale and energy, etc etc that can/will have positive or negative impacts on a given play.

Plankton is kind of heading in the right direction with his explanations, but there aren't attribute limits within the code...

The issue is determining opportunity cost and the such...
 
InRomoWeTrust
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Originally posted by Homage
There are no diminishing returns for attributes. Any talk of that is just bullshit. However, there are certain attributes which have effects on multipliers such as morale and energy, etc etc that can/will have positive or negative impacts on a given play.

Plankton is kind of heading in the right direction with his explanations, but there aren't attribute limits within the code...

The issue is determining opportunity cost and the such...


Right. The 'diminishing return' would be the opportunity cost.
 
Plankton
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Originally posted by Homage


Plankton is kind of heading in the right direction with his explanations, but there aren't attribute limits within the code...


Not sure where I said that, but I know that I do not explain things well at times, so maybe I implied that.
 
Bane
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I thought you did an awesome job in your explanation Plankton, I was impressed
 
whodey08
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Originally posted by Bane
I thought you did an awesome job in your explanation Plankton, I was impressed


 
Homage
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Originally posted by Plankton
Not sure where I said that, but I know that I do not explain things well at times, so maybe I implied that.


You could've worded it differently by the no impact because that's not entirely true. It will have an impact.. the question is will that impact outweigh placing points elsewhere, which you did not mention. Adding to your attribute score always has an impact.
 
Plankton
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Originally posted by Homage
You could've worded it differently by the no impact because that's not entirely true. It will have an impact.. the question is will that impact outweigh placing points elsewhere, which you did not mention. Adding to your attribute score always has an impact.


Originally posted by Plankton

blah blah blah.... If that were the case, it would be subject to diminishing returns, but still have a noticeable impact.

blah blah blah... This would be a case where altho the attributes do not suffer diminishing returns, the increase yielded no noticeable impact.


Bolded key words in explanation. To me, unless having a higher break block roll allows my DE to get more pressure (i.e. more Hurries or Sacks), than having a higher break block roll is not noticeable.

When I am talking about impact, I am focused on the game results, not the numbers in the equations. You are right that increasing an attribute that factors into a given roll will always increase the value of that roll (ignoring the RNG factor). However, most of us are here to watch a simulation of football, not just see numbers in equations, so the only time I care about the outcome of the roll is when it impacts the game in a noticeable way.
Edited by Plankton on Dec 13, 2012 13:20:32
Edited by Plankton on Dec 13, 2012 13:17:54
 
Homage
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Well game results via stats can be misleading... you can have an impact in the sim without actually getting a stat... so using stats as the baseline of an argument for a D-linemen is not necessarily a good example. I agree that there isn't much to go on, but just because you don't net any extra hurries or sacks doesn't mean that it didn't help or make an impact. You could be facing stiffer competition as you increase your attributes as well. You may not see a change because your opponents are better or have an entirely different approach/gameplan/VAs etc etc.
 
lightball20
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If you are saying that adding more points doesn't make any noticeable difference. If increasing the stats does not increase the returns then the returns are diminishing.
 
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