Warrior General Games

the penalty for failing to convert when going for it on 4th down is way too high overall, particularly when scaled for lower level leagues, and i suggest lowering it.

At the very least, it should be lowered in three situations.

1) you are too close to EZ to punt but too far to go for a FG and there is no choice be go for it. until GLB adds a pooch punt or something then teams shouldn't be penalized for something they have no choice but to do. This bit of field is fairly significant at early levels where even a small morale drop can lead to spirals.

2) you go for it on 4th in the last two minutes of a half...whether to eat clock or because you are losing (morale is already probably low),,, realistically nobody would be overly disheartened in these situations (or no more than they already may be, that is).

3) when going for it on 4th and you make the yards but still don't get the 1st down (its 4th and 2 and you make 2 yards-- the GLB version of bringing out the chains). Again, in RL no one is going to be very upset about something that was nearly made--in fact the close call might even boost morale.

Related--since there is a morale penalty for going for it on 4th and failing--there should be a morale boost when going for it and converting. There doesn't seem to be one at all, and if there is it isn't nearly as significant as not converting.

Further related-- seems to me ONLY the offense, and maybe only those dots on the field, should suffer a morale penalty for failing to convert on 4th--but as far as I can tell everyone on the team suffers, even the guys not on the field.

This thread feels kind of empty without some actual evidence that shows the morale effect from the described events.

Originally posted by InRomoWeTrust
This thread feels kind of empty without some actual evidence that shows the morale effect from the described events.

how can I post that? I can post game replays but non-GMs of the teams won't be able to see the morale bar nor see it dropping--so its just my word anyway.

most owners/GMs have probably observed the bar drop every time a team fails to convert on 4th, if not, watch for it.

screenshot, ldo

or just your word on the value.

ETA: I'm not trying to knock the suggestion, I just feel like it's a needed component to validate the subjective nature of things.

Originally posted by fogie55
2) you go for it on 4th in the last two minutes of a half...whether to eat clock or because you are losing (morale is already probably low),,, realistically nobody would be overly disheartened in these situations (or no more than they already may be, that is).

in al honesty if it is a close game the teams morale wouldn't be low if they are only down a FG or a TD. it would definately go down if they fail on a 4th down conversion to win the game so imo this example is working as intended.

You underestimate morale spirals or how little it takes to summons one.

its like a loss of 3 morale...not seeing a problem

Originally posted by dss02
its like a loss of 3 morale...not seeing a problem

maybe not at higher levels, but a rookie/pee wee/prep/university levels where confidence is between 8 and 18 it causes major issues--especially when this is the same group that HAS to go for it on 4th down like it or not since they can't kick FGs more than 20 yards. needs to be scaled at the very least.

Originally posted by dss02
its like a loss of 3 morale...not seeing a problem

heck of a lot more than 3 in some cases...might be one of those things where higher confidence helps--so low level dots are screwed.

guys at 99 at start of play, end at 93---drop of 6 after http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=2242893&pbp_id=1201279
guys who start at 91, end at 79-- drop of 12 http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=2242893&pbp_id=1202241
start at 80, end at 76 -- drop of 4 http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=2242893&pbp_id=1202411

i'm not computer literate enough to do screen shots--but if anyone wants to be a GM they can verify

situation does seem to matter--the one in the RZ was a harder hit while the one while leading was smaller...there is some logic to it, but the suggestion stands as its still WAY too high and needs to at least be lowered for younger dots

In real life it is terribly disappointing to get that close and not score.

Originally posted by fogie55
heck of a lot more than 3 in some cases...might be one of those things where higher confidence helps--so low level dots are screwed.

guys at 99 at start of play, end at 93---drop of 6 after http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=2242893&pbp_id=1201279
guys who start at 91, end at 79-- drop of 12 http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=2242893&pbp_id=1202241
start at 80, end at 76 -- drop of 4 http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=2242893&pbp_id=1202411

i'm not computer literate enough to do screen shots--but if anyone wants to be a GM they can verify

if it is a lower level thing than you should change to

Lower the morale penalty at lower levels

Originally posted by dss02
if it is a lower level thing than you should change to

Lower the morale penalty at lower levels

I don't know if it is only a problem at lower levels--I suspect not--but since the teams I own are current in prep and univ. levels that's where I'm seeing it. OP does suggest a fix "at the very least" for low levels if not for everyone...mod can add language that effect to the title if it will fit

the situation where teams don't even have a choice because GLB doesn't allow short punts from too close seems like a no-brainer--there should not be a penalty for something the a team can't decide (so same probably true in casual leagues--if no choice is made to go for then there shouldn't be a penalty when failing after being forced to go for it). a solution might be to kick FGs you know you will miss--but that turns the ball over from the spot of the kick so its the reverse of a punt.