Warrior General Games

What position should I make my return specialist, and how should i distribute my XP points?

That's a mater of preference. The top 2 choices are usually a CB or HB. CB only costs 200 flex whereas a HB costs 300 flex. A CB has return specialist SA as part of their SA tree. A HB has juke, head fake, first step, and quick cut and Spin as part of their SA tree and you can add Return Specialist as your bonus SA.

If you can afford the flex of a HB I would suggest a HB.

You want to focus on speed, agility, vision and carrying as your top 4 attributes. Speed should be your primary focus for training and skill points.

CB,WR, or HB are the best. I prefer HB. Speed, Agility, Vision, Confidence, Carrying

Originally posted by CyberNinja
CB,WR, or HB are the best. I prefer HB. Speed, Agility, Vision, Confidence, Carrying

carrying before confidence

Originally posted by CyberNinja
CB,WR, or HB are the best. I prefer HB. Speed, Agility, Vision, Confidence, Carrying

That's a really weird build.

Why not Speed, agility, carrying, vision, in that order ?

Originally posted by Hagalaz
Originally posted by CyberNinja

CB,WR, or HB are the best. I prefer HB. Speed, Agility, Vision, Confidence, Carrying

That's a really weird build.

Why not Speed, agility, carrying, vision, in that order ?

speed
agility
carrying
strength
vision
stamina
confidence
jumping

at the end of your build, the attributes should be in this order, highest to lowest

WR or CB, either will do, both will need a similar skill set

Speed
Agility
Vision are the top 3 attributes IMO

Originally posted by reddogrw
speed
agility
carrying
strength
vision
stamina
confidence
jumping

at the end of your build, the attributes should be in this order, highest to lowest

I wasn't talking about attribute highest to lowest, I was talking about attribute priority, aka, which to focus on first. You can (and should) get to that highest to lowest list while using the most efficient path, which means the one I mentioned.

Originally posted by English Pats Fan
WR or CB, either will do, both will need a similar skill set

Speed
Agility
Vision are the top 3 attributes IMO

Everything you've just said is incorrect, unfortunately :\

First, WR or CB are both inferior to elusive HB.

In what comes to ALGs, elusive HB has only 4 majors (which beats out any returner arch and any WR arch).

In what comes to attributes, considering carrying is more important than vision in today's sim, elusive HB also beats any 4-major CB arch.

When it comes to SAs, an elusive HB can get head fake, juke, quick cut, spin and return specialist from bonus SA. It even has a bonus to useful SAs. A CB wil always lack two of these. WR can get all the SAs, but can't get a 4-major archetype.

Now, vision has been (unfortunately) proven to be less and less important. With the 45% bonus to it from return man and 15% from special teamer, something as low as 68-72 is acceptable. People are even going lower sometimes. Carrying, however, will help with not fumbling and breaking tackles. Its impact is quite a bit higher than vision at the moment. When super elusive was true to its name, yes, vision was more important. Now? Not so much.

Ive tried to tell pats fan that vision has become less important but he doesnt think i know what i am talking about....lol

Originally posted by Hagalaz
Originally posted by reddogrw

speed
agility
carrying
strength
vision
stamina
confidence
jumping

at the end of your build, the attributes should be in this order, highest to lowest

I wasn't talking about attribute highest to lowest, I was talking about attribute priority, aka, which to focus on first. You can (and should) get to that highest to lowest list while using the most efficient path, which means the one I mentioned.

Originally posted by English Pats Fan

WR or CB, either will do, both will need a similar skill set

Speed
Agility
Vision are the top 3 attributes IMO

Everything you've just said is incorrect, unfortunately :\

First, WR or CB are both inferior to elusive HB.

In what comes to ALGs, elusive HB has only 4 majors (which beats out any returner arch and any WR arch).

In what comes to attributes, considering carrying is more important than vision in today's sim, elusive HB also beats any 4-major CB arch.

When it comes to SAs, an elusive HB can get head fake, juke, quick cut, spin and return specialist from bonus SA. It even has a bonus to useful SAs. A CB wil always lack two of these. WR can get all the SAs, but can't get a 4-major archetype.

Now, vision has been (unfortunately) proven to be less and less important. With the 45% bonus to it from return man and 15% from special teamer, something as low as 68-72 is acceptable. People are even going lower sometimes. Carrying, however, will help with not fumbling and breaking tackles. Its impact is quite a bit higher than vision at the moment. When super elusive was true to its name, yes, vision was more important. Now? Not so much.

I agree

However, one issue with the elusive HB archetype is you get catching as a minor (which does nothing for you) and jumping does not receive ALG's

You can still get attributes where you need them with the returner archetype, and Power Thru is not a penalty SA if you use the WR and add Return Specialist and Power Thru SA's - Power Thru is very effective on returners

In the end, you can build a very effective returner using any of the archetypes, but if you don't have the rest of the special team depth chart set up correctly it won't matter what kind of returner you have

Originally posted by whodey08
Ive tried to tell pats fan that vision has become less important but he doesnt think i know what i am talking about....lol

Oh I know that, but I didn't think there would be another attribute as important as Vision when you take Speed and Agility out of it?

Originally posted by English Pats Fan
Originally posted by whodey08

Ive tried to tell pats fan that vision has become less important but he doesnt think i know what i am talking about....lol

Oh I know that, but I didn't think there would be another attribute as important as Vision when you take Speed and Agility out of it?

carrying is

plus you get a 60% bonus to vision with Return Man and Special Teamer VA. so 60 vision equates to 96 vision when you factor those in

If you're making a PURE returner (meaning that dot will have no other duties on any team), CB is cheapest. If you want that player to be able to do more than just return kicks and punts, a HB is best. (skill sets for returner HB line up best with positional skill sets.)
As for how to build, start with speed and agility. 99.9% of all dot builders would agree with this. As for what to do next, I'm with Hagalaz on this and would go with carrying... then vision, then confidence. Also, I would max your speed out at 100 natural. Agility should be nearly as high... at LEAST above 90. Most of what everyone else posted is good advice/ideas for the build.

Originally posted by reddogrw

I agree

However, one issue with the elusive HB archetype is you get catching as a minor (which does nothing for you) and jumping does not receive ALG's

You can still get attributes where you need them with the returner archetype, and Power Thru is not a penalty SA if you use the WR and add Return Specialist and Power Thru SA's - Power Thru is very effective on returners

In the end, you can build a very effective returner using any of the archetypes, but if you don't have the rest of the special team depth chart set up correctly it won't matter what kind of returner you have

While no one argues that you can't build an effective returner with the 5 ALG archetypes (see WR, CB returner, etc.), it's dumb to do so. I could see the CB returner from a cost perspective, but choosing WR over HB is just plain silly. I mean, I could use a QB if I wanted to and build an effective returner, but you don't see anyone doing that.

Any build run-throughs in the VPB will show you how dumb this move is, regardless of the "wasted" ALGs from attributes like catching. In GLB, most positions succeed because of 3 or 4 attributes and returners are one of them. Getting the 4 major ALG values over the 5 helps you really boost speed/agility/carrying.

Side-note: All returners should be building for 90+ natural (value w/o EQ/VAs) carrying. That's probably the one thing that is forgotten in the midst of blind love for speed/agility.

WR should NEVER be used at KR/PR. Its just not the best option and/or cost effective. For the 300 flex a HB is 100% the better choice.