Warrior General Games

Is there any logic to this? Is there a right way and a wrong way? My QBs seem to actively ignore their checkdowns, but this is probably a perception rather than an outright fact. What's underpinning the algorithm as the ticks go by?

can't address the OPs question, but if any gurus are out there can you also answer whether or not it works in the custom checkdowns to have the same player twice-- like the Qb looks to the TE, then the Hb, the back to the TE, then again to the Hb, then to a WR?

Originally posted by fogie55
can't address the OPs question, but if any gurus are out there can you also answer whether or not it works in the custom checkdowns to have the same player twice-- like the Qb looks to the TE, then the Hb, the back to the TE, then again to the Hb, then to a WR?

Yes it works as you describe.

Originally posted by Makntak
Is there any logic to this? Is there a right way and a wrong way? My QBs seem to actively ignore their checkdowns, but this is probably a perception rather than an outright fact. What's underpinning the algorithm as the ticks go by?

QBs will generally follow their progressions, though they may "jump ahead" to a dot that is open and if under pressure they may dump off to a target out of cycle.

The vision checks, route hot spots, degree of coverage, and and amount of pass rush pressure all affect the QB read progressions.

Doing it well is the key to being a good OC, but it takes practice.

Originally posted by fogie55
can't address the OPs question, but if any gurus are out there can you also answer whether or not it works in the custom checkdowns to have the same player twice-- like the Qb looks to the TE, then the Hb, the back to the TE, then again to the Hb, then to a WR?

You can also put the same player in a progression twice in a row, if you want to give him a longer look.

Originally posted by tautology
You can also put the same player in a progression twice in a row, if you want to give him a longer look.

oh, wow...that's something I hadn't thought of at all... thanks for the info

so then would it conceivably be possible to identify the biggest mismatch and put that route in all 5 slots? look at HB, HB, HB, HB, HB?

Originally posted by fogie55
oh, wow...that's something I hadn't thought of at all... thanks for the info

so then would it conceivably be possible to identify the biggest mismatch and put that route in all 5 slots? look at HB, HB, HB, HB, HB?

Yes

Originally posted by fogie55
oh, wow...that's something I hadn't thought of at all... thanks for the info

so then would it conceivably be possible to identify the biggest mismatch and put that route in all 5 slots? look at HB, HB, HB, HB, HB?

Yep, but be wary....this sometimes works out well, but also sometimes leads to your QB forcing a 60 yard throw into triple coverage, which is a great way to throw a pick.

Originally posted by Makntak
Is there any logic to this? Is there a right way and a wrong way? My QBs seem to actively ignore their checkdowns, but this is probably a perception rather than an outright fact. What's underpinning the algorithm as the ticks go by?

if you watch the Empire game vs Manalishi tourney game, i had several examples of double progression looks in a row. Probably half of those plays were, for example, WR2, WR2, WR1.....

still shocked this never occurred to me to try... guess its because I do mostly do the defensive side... can't wait to play with it on a game by game, matchup-by-matchup basis

another related question--I tried to do this and couldn't get it to work:

the diagram for most HB screen plays show the WR(s) running routes, but if you change the checkdown to exclude the HB (or list him last) the QB still won't look at the WR.

any way to have a screen play called but actually throw it to someone else if they are wide open? if not, why not?

Originally posted by fogie55
another related question--I tried to do this and couldn't get it to work:

the diagram for most HB screen plays show the WR(s) running routes, but if you change the checkdown to exclude the HB (or list him last) the QB still won't look at the WR.

any way to have a screen play called but actually throw it to someone else if they are wide open? if not, why not?

Screens are automatic, they script the throw to the target listed for the play.

As for "why not," it's the same reason that there are no play- action passes....the sim is not equipped to handle it in a balanced way.

Originally posted by tautology
Screens are automatic, they script the throw to the target listed for the play.

As for "why not," it's the same reason that there are no play- action passes....the sim is not equipped to handle it in a balanced way.

got it, thanks Tau

So when setting up your QB progressions, should the QB be looking at the player who has the hot route first? Does looking for a man elsewhere first cause any kind of reactive behaviour in the defensive dots, ie do they get pump-faked so so speak (not literally) and think that the intended target is where the QB is looking, which in turn may effect their coverage detail?
In other words, can you use the QB progression to wrong foot the defense?

How many ticks is one progression?

Personally, I don't even look at what the "hot route" is in the play (primary receiver in the play design).

When scouting or game planning a game, in those rare events I will instead look for routes that go where i want them to go and determine my own "hot route" by double progressing that receiver a few times in the custom checkdown list. You can make that receiver as hot as you want by tripling up on him if you believe it in it enough.

As for ticks to the progression, that depends on many things, the quality of coverage, the quality of receiver, qb build...