Warrior General Games

I forgot to give him any.

Should I bother spending SP on it?

What are optimal and minimum vision for a DE? 61? 68? 73? 75? 100?

I like to get at least 68. 74 is likely better, but it depends on how far you are on the player and where the big three stand. (Spd, Agl, Str)

Yes a DE needs vision.

And welcome to GLB

Vision is important to get off the snap quickly.

Ugh I don't like you


No vision is no important.

Originally posted by yello1
I forgot to give him any.

Should I bother spending SP on it?

What are optimal and minimum vision for a DE? 61? 68? 73? 75? 100?
Vision used to be important back when a quick reaction on the snap could mean getting by an OT untouched, but that hasn't been possible for some time now. Right now I don't see much reason to invest heavily in vision. According to timthorn's old study, going from 55 vision to 70 vision gives you roughly the same benefit as adding 15 in the Jump the Snap VA. I guess you could argue that getting a quick jump might help you get a better angle on the OT, but not getting a quick jump can actually mean the OT drops farther back towards the quarterback and thus the block is engaged closer to him.

The basic plan for any DE involves going balls out in strength, speed, and agility. Then you can accent the build however you want with the remaining skill points, choosing tackling if you want a run defender / fumble forcer, jumping if you want to deflect passes, or vision if you want someone who reacts very quickly. If it was even remotely likely that a DE would recognize a screen then I would recommend vision, but even with high vision that happened about as often as Look Off or Hurdle. So I guess I'm recommending 60 vision, but you can go higher if there's nothing else you want to invest in.

Originally posted by jdbolick

Vision used to be important back when a quick reaction on the snap could mean getting by an OT untouched, but that hasn't been possible for some time now. Right now I don't see much reason to invest heavily in vision. According to timthorn's old study, going from 55 vision to 70 vision gives you roughly the same benefit as adding 15 in the Jump the Snap VA. I guess you could argue that getting a quick jump might help you get a better angle on the OT, but not getting a quick jump can actually mean the OT drops farther back towards the quarterback and thus the block is engaged closer to him.

The basic plan for any DE involves going balls out in strength, speed, and agility. Then you can accent the build however you want with the remaining skill points, choosing tackling if you want a run defender / fumble forcer, jumping if you want to deflect passes, or vision if you want someone who reacts very quickly. If it was even remotely likely that a DE would recognize a screen then I would recommend vision, but even with high vision that happened about as often as Look Off or Hurdle. So I guess I'm recommending 60 vision, but you can go higher if there's nothing else you want to invest in.

I disagree and have made some nice DE's putting pressure on the QB.

Originally posted by jdbolick

Vision used to be important back when a quick reaction on the snap could mean getting by an OT untouched, but that hasn't been possible for some time now. Right now I don't see much reason to invest heavily in vision. According to timthorn's old study, going from 55 vision to 70 vision gives you roughly the same benefit as adding 15 in the Jump the Snap VA. I guess you could argue that getting a quick jump might help you get a better angle on the OT, but not getting a quick jump can actually mean the OT drops farther back towards the quarterback and thus the block is engaged closer to him.

The basic plan for any DE involves going balls out in strength, speed, and agility. Then you can accent the build however you want with the remaining skill points, choosing tackling if you want a run defender / fumble forcer, jumping if you want to deflect passes, or vision if you want someone who reacts very quickly. If it was even remotely likely that a DE would recognize a screen then I would recommend vision, but even with high vision that happened about as often as Look Off or Hurdle. So I guess I'm recommending 60 vision, but you can go higher if there's nothing else you want to invest in.

All true, but you forgot vision's roll in reacting to the run.

Originally posted by VegasABD
I disagree and have made some nice DE's putting pressure on the QB.
No you haven't.


Originally posted by Dr. E
All true, but you forgot vision's roll in reacting to the run.
I'm pretty sure that defensive linemen don't need to pass a check to react to a run.

Originally posted by jdbolick

I'm pretty sure that defensive linemen don't need to pass a check to react to a run.

I think you're wrong there. I'm quite certain that there is a check for every kind of play. We've seen d-linemen ignore ball carriers and keep rushing the passer, so I'm kind of leaning towards believing that there is such a check.

Originally posted by Hagalaz
Originally posted by jdbolick


I'm pretty sure that defensive linemen don't need to pass a check to react to a run.

I think you're wrong there. I'm quite certain that there is a check for every kind of play. We've seen d-linemen ignore ball carriers and keep rushing the passer, so I'm kind of leaning towards believing that there is such a check.

Yeah, there most definitely is a check.

Hence the pass/run/balanced focus settings.

Originally posted by Hagalaz
We've seen d-linemen ignore ball carriers and keep rushing the passer
I actually have not seen that. I have seen blitzing LBs / CBs / safeties do that, but DEs always seem to react to the run.

I've seen it on all my DTs, never built a DE, so cannot say anything about them...

Fair enough. If they had to make such a check, it appears to either be very easy to pass or not very relevant since it is extremely uncommon for defensive linemen to ignore a run.