Once a QB decides to run and the D reacts (and all converge leaving downfield targets open) he should have the opportunity to change back to a pass if he is still behind the LOS and throw downfield to the open receivers. Could be based on a vision check.
Forum > Suggestions > Once a QB decides to run, let him change his mind back to throw if ALL the D converges
sblast1919
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like the idea.....it does seem the Qb does like to commit a bit too much, on both rushes and passes.
The Qb should be surveying the field at all times....even when a Wr is open, he still might take off on foot if it will provide positive yardage.
And the like victor, once the Qb decides to rush, he no longer looks for WRs...this should be true after the LOS, but most QB will rollout...stop for a second, look for some WRs and then make the break.
Not sure if this would a be a easy fix, but it would make the Qb act more realistically.
The Qb should be surveying the field at all times....even when a Wr is open, he still might take off on foot if it will provide positive yardage.
And the like victor, once the Qb decides to rush, he no longer looks for WRs...this should be true after the LOS, but most QB will rollout...stop for a second, look for some WRs and then make the break.
Not sure if this would a be a easy fix, but it would make the Qb act more realistically.
Carl Ellir
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yes this would be a good idea but it probably would be difficult to balance. Currently the defense converges when a QB rushes right away, and for rushing QBs this pretty much makes them useless with a good defense in place. If they didn't commit to the run right away, then the rushing QB would most likely get large chunks of yards every time. However, if something like this (the OP) were to happen, then rushing QBs who attempted to run and as the defense converges, he changes his mind and throws to a wide open receiver and most likely a TD. It would have to rely very heavily on a vision check to give it an excuse... if its too much (defense fixurbuilds).
Diamond Spade
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the problem with this is the whole def converges instead of just one or two, so like CE said it can be exploited
so im a -1 for now,
so im a -1 for now,
Edited by Diamond Spade on Mar 16, 2012 02:55:37
I say +1. It is more unrealistic when dots going the opposite way with the receivers automatically hone in the QB once the ball gets tucked like it's magic or something..... and they get back alot faster than they got out there too.
Yeah, in theory it'd be great, but in practice I can imagine it'd be horribly exploited. A good compromise would be to make the defence do vision checks if the QB tucks and runs.
doobas™
doobas™
Anarcho
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Originally posted by doobas
Yeah, in theory it'd be great, but in practice I can imagine it'd be horribly exploited. A good compromise would be to make the defence do vision checks if the QB tucks and runs.
doobas™
I would be in favor of vision checks to see if the QB is rushing. Make all defenders undergo vision checks whenever the QB leaves the pocket at all, regardless of whether or not the QB has tucked the ball. Defenders should not "know" that the ball is tucked.
This way defenders can fail the vision check in one of two ways. They can either fail to see the QB rushing and continue to maintain coverage or they can have a false positive where they leave coverage to chase the QB, when the QB has not tucked the ball yet (potentially leading to an uncovered receiver). It would be difficult to exploit (because it would be dependent on the defender's build rather than a sim feature) and it would add value to dual threat and scrambling QBs.
Then to balance it out even more, make the vision check a lot more difficult when in man coverage, easier when in zone, and even easier when set to QB spy.
Yeah, in theory it'd be great, but in practice I can imagine it'd be horribly exploited. A good compromise would be to make the defence do vision checks if the QB tucks and runs.
doobas™
I would be in favor of vision checks to see if the QB is rushing. Make all defenders undergo vision checks whenever the QB leaves the pocket at all, regardless of whether or not the QB has tucked the ball. Defenders should not "know" that the ball is tucked.
This way defenders can fail the vision check in one of two ways. They can either fail to see the QB rushing and continue to maintain coverage or they can have a false positive where they leave coverage to chase the QB, when the QB has not tucked the ball yet (potentially leading to an uncovered receiver). It would be difficult to exploit (because it would be dependent on the defender's build rather than a sim feature) and it would add value to dual threat and scrambling QBs.
Then to balance it out even more, make the vision check a lot more difficult when in man coverage, easier when in zone, and even easier when set to QB spy.
Originally posted by Anarcho
I would be in favor of vision checks to see if the QB is rushing. Make all defenders undergo vision checks whenever the QB leaves the pocket at all, regardless of whether or not the QB has tucked the ball. Defenders should not "know" that the ball is tucked.
This way defenders can fail the vision check in one of two ways. They can either fail to see the QB rushing and continue to maintain coverage or they can have a false positive where they leave coverage to chase the QB, when the QB has not tucked the ball yet (potentially leading to an uncovered receiver). It would be difficult to exploit (because it would be dependent on the defender's build rather than a sim feature) and it would add value to dual threat and scrambling QBs.
Then to balance it out even more, make the vision check a lot more difficult when in man coverage, easier when in zone, and even easier when set to QB spy.
Sounds like a plan, mate. +1 to your suggestion
doobas™
I would be in favor of vision checks to see if the QB is rushing. Make all defenders undergo vision checks whenever the QB leaves the pocket at all, regardless of whether or not the QB has tucked the ball. Defenders should not "know" that the ball is tucked.
This way defenders can fail the vision check in one of two ways. They can either fail to see the QB rushing and continue to maintain coverage or they can have a false positive where they leave coverage to chase the QB, when the QB has not tucked the ball yet (potentially leading to an uncovered receiver). It would be difficult to exploit (because it would be dependent on the defender's build rather than a sim feature) and it would add value to dual threat and scrambling QBs.
Then to balance it out even more, make the vision check a lot more difficult when in man coverage, easier when in zone, and even easier when set to QB spy.
Sounds like a plan, mate. +1 to your suggestion
doobas™
Hmm usually if a QB tucks the ball he is done throwing. So a conditional +1
Make it a slider setting
The more it is set to Look while Running the slower the "scramble" is and the more its like a roll out, and the greater the chance of a fumble. But the lower a vision check is required to see an open receiver and the less time it takes to convert back to throwing mode. So at a high setting he is barely running and throws only a bit less than normal. The lower it is the more he runs the less likely he is to see a receiver and the longer he takes to throw and the worse the quality of the throw. All settings seriously reduce pass distance.
Meanwhile the higher the QB Look While Running setting is the less likely defenders are to abandon their receivers and the greater the chance is they will cause a fumble and make a tackle.
Make it a slider setting
The more it is set to Look while Running the slower the "scramble" is and the more its like a roll out, and the greater the chance of a fumble. But the lower a vision check is required to see an open receiver and the less time it takes to convert back to throwing mode. So at a high setting he is barely running and throws only a bit less than normal. The lower it is the more he runs the less likely he is to see a receiver and the longer he takes to throw and the worse the quality of the throw. All settings seriously reduce pass distance.
Meanwhile the higher the QB Look While Running setting is the less likely defenders are to abandon their receivers and the greater the chance is they will cause a fumble and make a tackle.
RiverRat2
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Originally posted by Anarcho
I would be in favor of vision checks to see if the QB is rushing. Make all defenders undergo vision checks whenever the QB leaves the pocket at all, regardless of whether or not the QB has tucked the ball. Defenders should not "know" that the ball is tucked.
This way defenders can fail the vision check in one of two ways. They can either fail to see the QB rushing and continue to maintain coverage or they can have a false positive where they leave coverage to chase the QB, when the QB has not tucked the ball yet (potentially leading to an uncovered receiver). It would be difficult to exploit (because it would be dependent on the defender's build rather than a sim feature) and it would add value to dual threat and scrambling QBs.
Then to balance it out even more, make the vision check a lot more difficult when in man coverage, easier when in zone, and even easier when set to QB spy.
+1
I would be in favor of vision checks to see if the QB is rushing. Make all defenders undergo vision checks whenever the QB leaves the pocket at all, regardless of whether or not the QB has tucked the ball. Defenders should not "know" that the ball is tucked.
This way defenders can fail the vision check in one of two ways. They can either fail to see the QB rushing and continue to maintain coverage or they can have a false positive where they leave coverage to chase the QB, when the QB has not tucked the ball yet (potentially leading to an uncovered receiver). It would be difficult to exploit (because it would be dependent on the defender's build rather than a sim feature) and it would add value to dual threat and scrambling QBs.
Then to balance it out even more, make the vision check a lot more difficult when in man coverage, easier when in zone, and even easier when set to QB spy.
+1
Originally posted by Anarcho
I would be in favor of vision checks to see if the QB is rushing. Make all defenders undergo vision checks whenever the QB leaves the pocket at all, regardless of whether or not the QB has tucked the ball. Defenders should not "know" that the ball is tucked.
This way defenders can fail the vision check in one of two ways. They can either fail to see the QB rushing and continue to maintain coverage or they can have a false positive where they leave coverage to chase the QB, when the QB has not tucked the ball yet (potentially leading to an uncovered receiver). It would be difficult to exploit (because it would be dependent on the defender's build rather than a sim feature) and it would add value to dual threat and scrambling QBs.
Then to balance it out even more, make the vision check a lot more difficult when in man coverage, easier when in zone, and even easier when set to QB spy.
+1
I would be in favor of vision checks to see if the QB is rushing. Make all defenders undergo vision checks whenever the QB leaves the pocket at all, regardless of whether or not the QB has tucked the ball. Defenders should not "know" that the ball is tucked.
This way defenders can fail the vision check in one of two ways. They can either fail to see the QB rushing and continue to maintain coverage or they can have a false positive where they leave coverage to chase the QB, when the QB has not tucked the ball yet (potentially leading to an uncovered receiver). It would be difficult to exploit (because it would be dependent on the defender's build rather than a sim feature) and it would add value to dual threat and scrambling QBs.
Then to balance it out even more, make the vision check a lot more difficult when in man coverage, easier when in zone, and even easier when set to QB spy.
+1
tjsexkitten82
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Originally posted by Anarcho
I would be in favor of vision checks to see if the QB is rushing. Make all defenders undergo vision checks whenever the QB leaves the pocket at all, regardless of whether or not the QB has tucked the ball. Defenders should not "know" that the ball is tucked.
This way defenders can fail the vision check in one of two ways. They can either fail to see the QB rushing and continue to maintain coverage or they can have a false positive where they leave coverage to chase the QB, when the QB has not tucked the ball yet (potentially leading to an uncovered receiver). It would be difficult to exploit (because it would be dependent on the defender's build rather than a sim feature) and it would add value to dual threat and scrambling QBs.
Then to balance it out even more, make the vision check a lot more difficult when in man coverage, easier when in zone, and even easier when set to QB spy.
+1
I would be in favor of vision checks to see if the QB is rushing. Make all defenders undergo vision checks whenever the QB leaves the pocket at all, regardless of whether or not the QB has tucked the ball. Defenders should not "know" that the ball is tucked.
This way defenders can fail the vision check in one of two ways. They can either fail to see the QB rushing and continue to maintain coverage or they can have a false positive where they leave coverage to chase the QB, when the QB has not tucked the ball yet (potentially leading to an uncovered receiver). It would be difficult to exploit (because it would be dependent on the defender's build rather than a sim feature) and it would add value to dual threat and scrambling QBs.
Then to balance it out even more, make the vision check a lot more difficult when in man coverage, easier when in zone, and even easier when set to QB spy.
+1
alindyl
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I think this is pretty much a NGTH based on a Q&A asking about implementing this. bolding the relevant parts:
Bort
February 11, 2011
Question: Does SYM work on a QB who is running a called pass play, but has pulled the ball down to run? If so, does it depend on if they are outside the pocket as to which ability they get (break tackle v. Spin)? Follow ups on those points: Since it seems that receivers don't turn around and start blocking until the QB has crossed the LOS, I was hoping for a little help in breaking the onslaught of tackles from when the QB tucks the ball and every D player has instant recognition that the QB is running. Also, since all of the defenders have left the receivers open down field, can the scrambling QB untuck the ball and throw it? (Example from 'determined not a bug') http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=1547393&pbp_id=4122961&flash=1 The bug was closed because it was determined that receivers could block, they either 'all' failed a vision check, or (more likely) they cannot commit to block until the QB has crossed the LOS, unless they were already commited to block prior to the pass. Conclusion: Maybe code it so that blockers can react at the same time as defenders, give the QB a chance to beat those defenders with SYM, or let the QB throw it to all those wide open dots.
Answer: Yes and no to the first two questions. Defenders and blockers both have to pass vision checks to start blocking or following the QB. It may be that the vision checks for the blockers tend to be harder for most blockers (who often have less vision that defenders) to pass vs the high vision defenses out there. The QB cannot currently exit the "run" mode once he's tucked the ball. He can scramble around until he tucks the ball, but I think if he could go back to throw mode, we'd probably see that become pretty overpowered as receivers suddenly were open due to the defenders breaking off. We'd probably have to add more logic and tactics options for likelihood of following the QB when he scrambles, etc.
Since they seem to be trying to come to a final "sim being finished" state and the mentioned complexities involved i don't think they are going to do this. It's possible he's changed his mind in the past year but it's pretty late in the game to try to develop and implement allowing QB's to tuck the ball and then change their minds and throw it.
So -1 just because i don't think it will happen
Bort
February 11, 2011
Question: Does SYM work on a QB who is running a called pass play, but has pulled the ball down to run? If so, does it depend on if they are outside the pocket as to which ability they get (break tackle v. Spin)? Follow ups on those points: Since it seems that receivers don't turn around and start blocking until the QB has crossed the LOS, I was hoping for a little help in breaking the onslaught of tackles from when the QB tucks the ball and every D player has instant recognition that the QB is running. Also, since all of the defenders have left the receivers open down field, can the scrambling QB untuck the ball and throw it? (Example from 'determined not a bug') http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=1547393&pbp_id=4122961&flash=1 The bug was closed because it was determined that receivers could block, they either 'all' failed a vision check, or (more likely) they cannot commit to block until the QB has crossed the LOS, unless they were already commited to block prior to the pass. Conclusion: Maybe code it so that blockers can react at the same time as defenders, give the QB a chance to beat those defenders with SYM, or let the QB throw it to all those wide open dots.
Answer: Yes and no to the first two questions. Defenders and blockers both have to pass vision checks to start blocking or following the QB. It may be that the vision checks for the blockers tend to be harder for most blockers (who often have less vision that defenders) to pass vs the high vision defenses out there. The QB cannot currently exit the "run" mode once he's tucked the ball. He can scramble around until he tucks the ball, but I think if he could go back to throw mode, we'd probably see that become pretty overpowered as receivers suddenly were open due to the defenders breaking off. We'd probably have to add more logic and tactics options for likelihood of following the QB when he scrambles, etc.
Since they seem to be trying to come to a final "sim being finished" state and the mentioned complexities involved i don't think they are going to do this. It's possible he's changed his mind in the past year but it's pretty late in the game to try to develop and implement allowing QB's to tuck the ball and then change their minds and throw it.
So -1 just because i don't think it will happen
Mike1709
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Originally posted by Anarcho
I would be in favor of vision checks to see if the QB is rushing. Make all defenders undergo vision checks whenever the QB leaves the pocket at all, regardless of whether or not the QB has tucked the ball. Defenders should not "know" that the ball is tucked.
This way defenders can fail the vision check in one of two ways. They can either fail to see the QB rushing and continue to maintain coverage or they can have a false positive where they leave coverage to chase the QB, when the QB has not tucked the ball yet (potentially leading to an uncovered receiver). It would be difficult to exploit (because it would be dependent on the defender's build rather than a sim feature) and it would add value to dual threat and scrambling QBs.
Then to balance it out even more, make the vision check a lot more difficult when in man coverage, easier when in zone, and even easier when set to QB spy.
+1
I do recall Bort saying there was a vision check for defenders when this issue was bought up before, but its way too easy to pass seeing as all defenders pass it instantly and head for the QB, it either needs to be made much, much more difficult or even better, not allow the vision check to happen until the QB has crossed the line of scrimmage (D-linemen and anybody else who was pass rushing can still get the QB behind the line of scrimmage
Edit: alindyl has posted what I recalled from Bort
I would be in favor of vision checks to see if the QB is rushing. Make all defenders undergo vision checks whenever the QB leaves the pocket at all, regardless of whether or not the QB has tucked the ball. Defenders should not "know" that the ball is tucked.
This way defenders can fail the vision check in one of two ways. They can either fail to see the QB rushing and continue to maintain coverage or they can have a false positive where they leave coverage to chase the QB, when the QB has not tucked the ball yet (potentially leading to an uncovered receiver). It would be difficult to exploit (because it would be dependent on the defender's build rather than a sim feature) and it would add value to dual threat and scrambling QBs.
Then to balance it out even more, make the vision check a lot more difficult when in man coverage, easier when in zone, and even easier when set to QB spy.
+1
I do recall Bort saying there was a vision check for defenders when this issue was bought up before, but its way too easy to pass seeing as all defenders pass it instantly and head for the QB, it either needs to be made much, much more difficult or even better, not allow the vision check to happen until the QB has crossed the line of scrimmage (D-linemen and anybody else who was pass rushing can still get the QB behind the line of scrimmage
Edit: alindyl has posted what I recalled from Bort
Edited by Mike1709 on Mar 16, 2012 12:52:03
Ken1
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Originally posted by Anarcho
I would be in favor of vision checks to see if the QB is rushing. Make all defenders undergo vision checks whenever the QB leaves the pocket at all, regardless of whether or not the QB has tucked the ball. Defenders should not "know" that the ball is tucked.
This way defenders can fail the vision check in one of two ways. They can either fail to see the QB rushing and continue to maintain coverage or they can have a false positive where they leave coverage to chase the QB, when the QB has not tucked the ball yet (potentially leading to an uncovered receiver). It would be difficult to exploit (because it would be dependent on the defender's build rather than a sim feature) and it would add value to dual threat and scrambling QBs.
Then to balance it out even more, make the vision check a lot more difficult when in man coverage, easier when in zone, and even easier when set to QB spy.
+1, except if set to QB spy it should be automatically seen; no need for a Vision check in that instance.
I would be in favor of vision checks to see if the QB is rushing. Make all defenders undergo vision checks whenever the QB leaves the pocket at all, regardless of whether or not the QB has tucked the ball. Defenders should not "know" that the ball is tucked.
This way defenders can fail the vision check in one of two ways. They can either fail to see the QB rushing and continue to maintain coverage or they can have a false positive where they leave coverage to chase the QB, when the QB has not tucked the ball yet (potentially leading to an uncovered receiver). It would be difficult to exploit (because it would be dependent on the defender's build rather than a sim feature) and it would add value to dual threat and scrambling QBs.
Then to balance it out even more, make the vision check a lot more difficult when in man coverage, easier when in zone, and even easier when set to QB spy.
+1, except if set to QB spy it should be automatically seen; no need for a Vision check in that instance.
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