Warrior General Games

This thread has your name all over it... not to mention you will have the chance to reacquaint with your long lost twin brother!!

http://goallineblitz.com/game/forum_thread.pl?thread_id=4723495&page=1


If you elect not to read the long thread it is essential that you must read the following post... paying careful attention to the last two lines...

http://goallineblitz.com/game/forum_thread.pl?thread_id=4723495&page=18#43393706

Originally posted by beenlurken
This thread has your name all over it... not to mention you will have the chance to reacquaint with your long lost twin brother!!

http://goallineblitz.com/game/forum_thread.pl?thread_id=4723495&page=1


If you elect not to read the long thread it is essential that you must read the following post... paying careful attention to the last two lines...

http://goallineblitz.com/game/forum_thread.pl?thread_id=4723495&page=18#43393706

nigh on to 3 AM and not alot of time but let me sum up your point here,

Fix Ur Build

Amiright?

Which just goes to show you are still utterly clueless as to my point before about the KRFF/PRTD and score ranges etc.

No matter how bad the build/tactics on one side and how good the build/tactics on the other the extreme ends of performance should never be less than or more than the extreme ends of performance in the NFL. Not because such FF KRTD ranges are impossible if kids play pro bowlers, but because this IS an NFL sim and the games should BE NFL games in terms of end stats and the builds should BE NFL builds in terms of performance. Shiitiest build possible should still be NFL quality. If the sim does not do that the sim sucks because its not generating the game it is advertising. Period, End of Story, nothing you can say will change my mind on that because its my opinion of what a Pro American Football sim should be. You are not right. Sorry.

Fix Ur Build don't address that issue, at all.

But you won't grok that this time either. Will you.

If your point is not a rehash but something specifically about the passing game, I am sorry but too tired to figure it out right now. If our passing game sucks, anyway (and it seems to) I am not OCing and not paying much attention to it, and yes my current WR crop definitely needs to fix their builds. Was going a way that was not wise early in build, even with extra points is not fixable.

"Goal Line Blitz is not affiliated with the NFL or any other professional football league"

The point Yello is trying to make and I agree is that more often than not, we rarely see games outside of WL over the course of the season that are even close in score. You either seem to win by 100 or lose by 100. Does anyone actually enjoy watching those games? Great builds vs. crap builds, yeah the great builds and great AIs should win, but not to the point of absolute stupidity. I can't see how anyone would opt for this over a sim that narrows the gap. It would be like playing one of the football games on PS3 where you keep playing on the easiest levels for the longest quarters to blow the CPU out by insane amounts. Where's the fun or challenge in that when all that's needed is to change the settings a little to "narrow the gap" to make the games more competitive.

This game in case you guys haven't noticed, seems to be losing the better agents every season. Look around, think back of how many great agents just quit or have STOPPED investing flex which means the end is coming for them as well.

Parity is what drives excitement and right now, the excitement isn't enough to drive the base we all need to have a bigger pool of mature dots to keep things as competitive as possible.

I don't think yello or I are saying you shouldn't be rewarded for great builds, but it shouldn't be this drastic.

Put out a pole and if they offered two versions of GLB, one where the existing sim stayed or one where it guaranteed games within 30 points or less regardless of builds, 80% of the base here would be in the second league. That's where GLB is missing the boat and if not addressed will kill this game before it ever gets out of beta.

Sorry no.

If you build crappy dots, can't put together a decent AI you deserve to get blown out by 100+ points.

Losing longtime gamers happens no matter the game and for any number of reasons, however due to some players good builders will remain. The difference is some new people insist on going at it alone and never bother to ask for help or ignore it when it is offered.

I for one am not too proud (although i believe i build decent dots and put together competitive AIs) I still ask for advice from several people on a regular basis...Just ask bug03 how often i spam his inbox when i am at a turning point in a dots build.

And as far as bad AI goes blame lazy ass people that think they can copy/paste an AI from one team to another and get magical results. You may get away with that for an OAI against subpar competition but if you do not fine tune your progressions and play calling based upon your roster you can expect to get shut the fuck out.

Originally posted by yello1
nigh on to 3 AM and not alot of time but let me sum up your point here,

Fix Ur Build

Amiright?

Which just goes to show you are still utterly clueless as to my point before about the KRFF/PRTD and score ranges etc.

No matter how bad the build/tactics on one side and how good the build/tactics on the other the extreme ends of performance should never be less than or more than the extreme ends of performance in the NFL. Not because such FF KRTD ranges are impossible if kids play pro bowlers, but because this IS an NFL sim and the games should BE NFL games in terms of end stats and the builds should BE NFL builds in terms of performance. Shiitiest build possible should still be NFL quality. If the sim does not do that the sim sucks because its not generating the game it is advertising. Period, End of Story, nothing you can say will change my mind on that because its my opinion of what a Pro American Football sim should be. You are not right. Sorry.

Fix Ur Build don't address that issue, at all.

But you won't grok that this time either. Will you.

If your point is not a rehash but something specifically about the passing game, I am sorry but too tired to figure it out right now. If our passing game sucks, anyway (and it seems to) I am not OCing and not paying much attention to it, and yes my current WR crop definitely needs to fix their builds. Was going a way that was not wise early in build, even with extra points is not fixable.


So wrong on so many levels.

If you build bad dots, you are going to suck, period, end of story.

This isn't an NFL sim, this is a football math equation.

It's ridiculous to think that if you build a horrible team, you should still be able to hang with my amazing team. WTF?

Originally posted by dss02
I for one am not too proud (although i believe i build decent dots and put together competitive AIs) I still ask for advice from several people on a regular basis...Just ask bug03 how often i spam his inbox when i am at a turning point in a dots build


And you STILL rep another network thingy in your sig

Originally posted by Otega
And you STILL rep another network thingy in your sig



That is the only nonfeeder team that I own...

Originally posted by Ruger7mmmag
Parity is what drives excitement.
I doubt you will find anyone who disagrees with that. What you and yello1 seem not to understand is what exactly is causing this lack of parity. Yello1 (and perhaps now you) insists that Bort handicap the better players of the game so people like himself (those who havent figured out the game yet) can compete with them. Hopefully you dont share in that ridiculousness. What owners of teams like Oberon and Miracle should be fighting for is a better league structuring of the end-game level... something like the hemisphere league idea. Not trying to be a dick but you and yello1 (and many others... problem is rampant across all of Nat Pro) have not built nat pro quality teams (whether is be an age thing or a skill thing) and have no business being put there to play against the best of each nat pro region. You guys should want to be placed in a league with similar teams... teams that are lacking in quality dots and/or gameplanning ability. Yello feels that simply because he has built dots to the end-game level (regardless of how poorly built they may be) and has put together a team of end-game dots (regardless of how terrible his game plans may be) that it is GLB's obligation to ensure that they/he can compete with the best in the game. He refuses to accept that the problem is not the disparity between elite dot builders/gameplanners but that the horrible league structure puts teams with these disparities in the same league. He refuses to accept that his team should be placed in a lower quality league (one that he can be competitive in). Do you really share that same thinking... the thinking that everyone deserves a participation trophy?


Originally posted by Ruger7mmmag
I can't see how anyone would opt for this over a sim that narrows the gap. It would be like playing one of the football games on PS3 where you keep playing on the easiest levels for the longest quarters to blow the CPU out by insane amounts. Where's the fun or challenge in that when all that's needed is to change the settings a little to "narrow the gap" to make the games more competitive.

I am so glad you brought this up. Problem is you completely screwed up the analogy. With PS3 you can move up to the higher levels for consistent competition... in GLB this works for a lot of the process with elite/competitive/regular but there is a huge flaw with transition from regional pro to nat pro that allows low qualtiy ("easy-mode") teams into nat pro (whether those easy teams are young teams that arent mature enough to compete yet or teams like Oberon and Miracle that are lacking in enough areas to not be nat pro quality). The top teams dont want to play the young or struggling teams in nat pro but we dont have a choice. Again, the solution is not handicap those top teams to make the games competitive but to create a league structure in which those teams do not face another (ie the top teams should be in a smaller rung higher up on the ladder... ala hemisphere idea)

Originally posted by Ruger7mmmag
Put out a pole and if they offered two versions of GLB, one where the existing sim stayed or one where it guaranteed games within 30 points or less regardless of builds, 80% of the base here would be in the second league. That's where GLB is missing the boat and if not addressed will kill this game before it ever gets out of beta.

It has nothing to do with "the sim" ... hopefully you can see now that it has everything to do with league structure. The right league structure will ensure that most games will be competitive (30 points or less as you define it).

Originally posted by yello1
nigh on to 3 AM and not alot of time but let me sum up your point here,

Fix Ur Build

Amiright?

Which just goes to show you are still utterly clueless as to my point before about the KRFF/PRTD and score ranges etc.

No matter how bad the build/tactics on one side and how good the build/tactics on the other the extreme ends of performance should never be less than or more than the extreme ends of performance in the NFL. Not because such FF KRTD ranges are impossible if kids play pro bowlers, but because this IS an NFL sim and the games should BE NFL games in terms of end stats and the builds should BE NFL builds in terms of performance. Shiitiest build possible should still be NFL quality. If the sim does not do that the sim sucks because its not generating the game it is advertising. Period, End of Story, nothing you can say will change my mind on that because its my opinion of what a Pro American Football sim should be. You are not right. Sorry.

Fix Ur Build don't address that issue, at all.

But you won't grok that this time either. Will you.

If your point is not a rehash but something specifically about the passing game, I am sorry but too tired to figure it out right now. If our passing game sucks, anyway (and it seems to) I am not OCing and not paying much attention to it, and yes my current WR crop definitely needs to fix their builds. Was going a way that was not wise early in build, even with extra points is not fixable.

Originally posted by Ruger7mmmag
The point Yello is trying to make and I agree is that more often than not, we rarely see games outside of WL over the course of the season that are even close in score. You either seem to win by 100 or lose by 100. Does anyone actually enjoy watching those games? Great builds vs. crap builds, yeah the great builds and great AIs should win, but not to the point of absolute stupidity. I can't see how anyone would opt for this over a sim that narrows the gap. It would be like playing one of the football games on PS3 where you keep playing on the easiest levels for the longest quarters to blow the CPU out by insane amounts. Where's the fun or challenge in that when all that's needed is to change the settings a little to "narrow the gap" to make the games more competitive.

This game in case you guys haven't noticed, seems to be losing the better agents every season. Look around, think back of how many great agents just quit or have STOPPED investing flex which means the end is coming for them as well.

Parity is what drives excitement and right now, the excitement isn't enough to drive the base we all need to have a bigger pool of mature dots to keep things as competitive as possible.

I don't think yello or I are saying you shouldn't be rewarded for great builds, but it shouldn't be this drastic.

Put out a pole and if they offered two versions of GLB, one where the existing sim stayed or one where it guaranteed games within 30 points or less regardless of builds, 80% of the base here would be in the second league. That's where GLB is missing the boat and if not addressed will kill this game before it ever gets out of beta.

fix ur builds!

Lurken and SLZ, not everyone on here builds a team of dots or is part of a network where they can "grow" dots according to a strict plan to fit a perfect AI. Our team has to recruit no less than 30 dots every season. Hell, it's hard enough filling a roster let alone being able to cherry pick builds like you are describing that aren't even out there on the FA market. Reality is that this dot building changes so frequently that the "masses" and "casual" players WILL NEVER BECOME EXPERT DOT BUILDERS which in turn means that teams who have to grab from this pool will never be able to compete.

I can accept that, bc I don't live and die with GLB. I have a full time job in telecom with a wife and two kids, one of which is a 7 year old baseball allstar I coach regular season and travel ball for in addition to trying to have a few hobbies of my own like hunting and fishing which take time.

Here's the problem. I REQUESTED WE BE MOVED TO A DIFFERENT LEAGUE WHERE WE WOULD BE MORE COMPETITIVE AND WERE TOLD IT WAS NOT POSSIBLE.

As for AI and builds, I've done PLENTY of asking and many of our dots are built according to advice from guys like Bug, Cable Jelly or whoever. We've even had similar "experts" import AIs as well. But in the end, not being able to secure 55 perfect builds and a perfect AI means that we're stuck in limbo of being a 6-8 win team. Too good to drop, too bad to win.

The problem with the league structure theory is that this isn't real life like the NFL where the difference between builds for 95% of each team are pretty darn even. Every season we have a HUGE number of turnover so there's no way to sort the teams BEFORE THE TEAMS ARE EVEN FILLED with the dots they'll be using that season.

Hence the only stop gap measure that's even possible is a formula to address the performance between builds or to trigger bonuses or penalties based on the spread in the game at the time.

One thing is for sure, degrading dedicated guys like yello and myself is not the way to go. That's what's killing this game. I know if I quit GMing Oberon, it disappears and so will a ton of agents from GLB. Yello invests a TON of money into this game on his own dots and multiple teams. Ask yourself, does it help you or hurt you to rip on folks who support the same game you play? Bc unless you guys are planning on financially picking up the slack for guys as they bail, you'll be playing with yourselves in a more watered down scenario than you have now.

There's too much flux in this game for the "masses" to stay on top of this and at a certain point the "payoff" isn't worth the pain. Hell, even at the end of the day all you have to show is an icon on your page...that falls way short of other alternatives in real life they may spend time on like when my son's team won a number of tournaments with real trophies, pictures, press etc.

How many of you guys are still buying tons of flex vs. recycling most of it?

if you don't build great dots and have great AI's expect to never compete unless league re structure is implemented. It makes absolutely no sense to dumb down a superior build in order to make games more competitive. If you want to build more competitive games your gonna have to build better dots and follow the strict building plan like the best teams in the game do.

Originally posted by MC_Hammer
"Goal Line Blitz is not affiliated with the NFL or any other professional football league"

It also says it is an American Pro (we get paid) Football Simulation

Is there some other American Pro Football league I am unaware of???????

This horsesht that Bort et al make about it not being the NFL is just that, mealy mouthed excuse making horsecrap.

No offense to those who repeat it. But its bunk and we all know it.

Thats what the game is supposed to be simming.

To the extent its not, thats a bad sim. Now bad simming can be excused when its helpful to playability. But 200-3 scores or other lopsided nonsense is not that. It makes people quit the game. Had a guy sell his new team today and I suspect it was the 3-200 loss we had in a scrim yesterday, for instance. People do not pay to play to be embarrassed. Well I do, but not everyone is such a glutton for punishment.

Originally posted by Ruger7mmmag
The point Yello is trying to make and I agree is that more often than not, we rarely see games outside of WL over the course of the season that are even close in score. You either seem to win by 100 or lose by 100. Does anyone actually enjoy watching those games? Great builds vs. crap builds, yeah the great builds and great AIs should win, but not to the point of absolute stupidity. I can't see how anyone would opt for this over a sim that narrows the gap. It would be like playing one of the football games on PS3 where you keep playing on the easiest levels for the longest quarters to blow the CPU out by insane amounts. Where's the fun or challenge in that when all that's needed is to change the settings a little to "narrow the gap" to make the games more competitive.

This game in case you guys haven't noticed, seems to be losing the better agents every season. Look around, think back of how many great agents just quit or have STOPPED investing flex which means the end is coming for them as well.

Parity is what drives excitement and right now, the excitement isn't enough to drive the base we all need to have a bigger pool of mature dots to keep things as competitive as possible.

I don't think yello or I are saying you shouldn't be rewarded for great builds, but it shouldn't be this drastic.

Put out a pole and if they offered two versions of GLB, one where the existing sim stayed or one where it guaranteed games within 30 points or less regardless of builds, 80% of the base here would be in the second league. That's where GLB is missing the boat and if not addressed will kill this game before it ever gets out of beta.

Exactly.

Sim the game we are supposed to sim.

Do not make it possible to put cub scouts on the field with 400 pound linemen, even if you royally frak your build.

Originally posted by dss02
Sorry no.

If you build crappy dots, can't put together a decent AI you deserve to get blown out by 100+ points.

Losing longtime gamers happens no matter the game and for any number of reasons, however due to some players good builders will remain. The difference is some new people insist on going at it alone and never bother to ask for help or ignore it when it is offered.

I for one am not too proud (although i believe i build decent dots and put together competitive AIs) I still ask for advice from several people on a regular basis...Just ask bug03 how often i spam his inbox when i am at a turning point in a dots build.

And as far as bad AI goes blame lazy ass people that think they can copy/paste an AI from one team to another and get magical results. You may get away with that for an OAI against subpar competition but if you do not fine tune your progressions and play calling based upon your roster you can expect to get shut the fuck out.




Let me try to reason with you. This requires you to read with an open mind. Can you do that>? Lets go then....

Lets imagine you are playing a professional formula race car game. You build your driver and your car and then set your tactics.....

Now in the menu for building your car you see under the options for engine a two stroke lawn motor engine.

And the driver options include a blind driver

And your body settings include a VW microbus.

And your tactical settings include making right turns.

now, is that a good formula one race car sim to you?????????????

Now you signed up for a race car sim, and here you are seeing a bad Death Race 2000 Sim instead.

You are going to keep paying for that are you?????

GLB allows the football equivalent of all of those things, and they are not so clearly labelled as to be obviously dumb, so that we wind up with VW Microbusses with put put engines going the wrong way down the frakking field with Ray Charles at the wheel.

And its not occassionally. Its every other game.

That's not a good thing.

Set the parameters of the game within the parameters of pro football. Your worst player should STILL be someone who would have a job on the Detroit Lions or the 78 Bucs. Thats someone who might not win many games, but he won't break every NFL record for bad stats by 200% either.

Thats all I am saying. NFL quality play. NFL outcomes. NFL fun.

Thats what the game needs to stay in business.

Its certainly what it needs to keep my interest in the long term.