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Forum > Pee Wee Leagues > Is Vision really needed on a Pee-Wee HB?
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Gerr
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Before you jump all over the idea because it's what you were told or it's what everyone does, actually think about it before responding.

The main way I think a HB uses Vision when rushing is to see defenders in their patch and adjust their running direction to avoid them or find gaps in between two defenders. I would imagine that the higher the HB's Vision, the higher chance the HB passes the Vision check and sees this and the farther away a Vision check is attempted.

The problem is that most PW HB's don't have the Agility to dance around defenders or make the needed adjustments without slowing way down, which usually means being tackled earlier than if they just continued in the direction they were running and ran right into the defenders at full speed.

Plus you have the rushing style slider in the HB tactics, which in my opinion doesn't determine the rushing style as much as it determines how often a HB will attempt to make a cut to avoid a tackler. Yes, a powerback will likely just want to plow straight ahead while a elusiveback will want to try to get around the defenders. But once again, PW HB's don't have a lot of Agility to make these cuts, so a high rating in that is actually counter productive at the PW levels.

I know Vision helps in the passing game, but isn't Catching much more important?

So I am wondering if anyone has built a HB with low Vision and if they were a good HB or not? To me, it makes sense that Vision is one of the skills you sacrifice at the PW level because it just don't have much use on HB's. Thoughts?
Edited by Gerr on Dec 10, 2010 16:58:35
 
juiceweezl
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Any measurement of "good" would have to be relative to the competition played.

This dot: http://goallineblitz.com/game/player.pl?player_id=2273512

has 19 vision and over 2K yards -- it's Copper. I do agree with you though. I think PW has morphed into a contest of who can build the most skewed, one directional dots. At one point in time, it was better to have a balanced build. Now, at least in the current SIM, you just need big, heavy, strong dots.
 
zmj44
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Originally posted by juiceweezl
Any measurement of "good" would have to be relative to the competition played.

This dot: http://goallineblitz.com/game/player.pl?player_id=2273512

has 19 vision and over 2K yards -- it's Copper. I do agree with you though. I think PW has morphed into a contest of who can build the most skewed, one directional dots. At one point in time, it was better to have a balanced build. Now, at least in the current SIM, you just need big, heavy, strong dots.


Disagreed with...on D nonetheless...
HB Passes are useful, so you need speed and agility on the LBs/Safeties, agility helps with inside runs too. +25-30 strength and your fine...its all DL, which has always really been strength strength strength

To the OP, idk tbh...jack up speed, agility, catching and jumping for a pure scat back
 
Gerr
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With all the other skills a HB could use in PW, I am wondering if Vision just isn't one of them.

Consider a HB that takes Speed to the 1st cap, then Strength, all while Intense training Agility & Catching all season. Now that's a well rounded HB! But if you try to work in decent Vision on that HB, those other more important skills will suffer. But how good will that HB really be with low Vision, that's the question.
 
juiceweezl
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Originally posted by Gerr
With all the other skills a HB could use in PW, I am wondering if Vision just isn't one of them.

Consider a HB that takes Speed to the 1st cap, then Strength, all while Intense training Agility & Catching all season. Now that's a well rounded HB! But if you try to work in decent Vision on that HB, those other more important skills will suffer. But how good will that HB really be with low Vision, that's the question.


How many times does an HB make 2 cuts? Usually they just go through one hole or out run a guy to the edge, maybe break a tackle, then move on.
 
juiceweezl
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Originally posted by zmj44
Disagreed with...on D nonetheless...
HB Passes are useful, so you need speed and agility on the LBs/Safeties, agility helps with inside runs too. +25-30 strength and your fine...its all DL, which has always really been strength strength strength

To the OP, idk tbh...jack up speed, agility, catching and jumping for a pure scat back


Sorry, I was referencing offense. Defense does need to be more rounded, but offense is pretty skewed towards one way builds.
 
Gerr
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zmj44, I am referring to Vision on PW HB's only. Vision is very important on the defensive side and on some of the other offensive players, but I think it's over rated on HB's. But I have always had decent Vision on all my HB's, so before I try a low Vision one next season, I am seeing what other good dot builders think.
 
zmj44
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Originally posted by Gerr
zmj44, I am referring to Vision on PW HB's only. Vision is very important on the defensive side and on some of the other offensive players, but I think it's over rated on HB's. But I have always had decent Vision on all my HB's, so before I try a low Vision one next season, I am seeing what other good dot builders think.


yeah yeah, I know, I was responding to juiceweezl saying that builds need to be lopsided, but he said that he was only referring to the offense.

Jumping is golden for HBs, if you want a 5-7 yard gain every time, invest in catching and jumping.

I had a test HB last season, and I know that Im bringing it back next season with the following:
1cap speed
1cap strength
35 agility
30 catching
25 jumping
20 vision
20 confidence
4 first step (think about it, when a strength HB gets into a secondary they all miss tackles but they slow him down, first step allows him to start from a dead stop)
 
Gerr
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Why that high of Jumping? How many times a season would your HB make a "jumping catch attempt" to warrant that much into Jumping? Or is Jumping used for other things too?
 
zmj44
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Originally posted by Gerr
Why that high of Jumping? How many times a season would your HB make a "jumping catch attempt" to warrant that much into Jumping? Or is Jumping used for other things too?


When in tight coverage, which is very likely with a 1cap speed HB, you need that jumping for catches and breaking tackles
 
Gerr
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I thought Jumping is only used when the ball is thrown high, not on all passes? And I have had Jumping on returners to try to stop the diving tackles, didn't work too well, so don't do it anymore. Have you seen any differences in fewer missed diving tackle attempts with a higher Jumping?
 
juiceweezl
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You do realize the SIM will do an about face 3 days into next season right?
 
Gerr
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I doubt that as even though they made changes that are not as popular, there are less complaints now than there were the past couple season when passing was over powered. I hope they tweak things so this season's nerf to passing is reduced some so games are not totally just slams.
 
iStoner
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lol...

I can't disagree with Gerr anymore than I do right now.

I pretty much am burning a Gerr effigy on how absolutely NOT right his opinions are.
 
LordEvil
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Vision is also helpful for picking up key blocks for your Fbs
 
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