Warrior General Games

My team is reseting to a cap 4 next season and we're deciding to go with a Rushing QB but unfortunately I'm not confident with building a scrambler as I am with a traditional QB.

Would you want to Cap Speed first to 77? Then Agility to 77 while training throwing?

What would be your capping order, and how much at each cap.


Thanks,
James

After running it through the builder, I think it's better to cap agility first to take advantage of the ALG's. (since it's a primary and speed is not) The catch is that if you cap speed first he is more effective at lower levels.

agility first... just 68 capping it will land you at 95 agility for your end build. from there, build styles and intentions of the build can influence what attributes you work on next.

if you want to be able to actually kind of throw the ball a little bit to counter tagging, then throwing to the 48 cap (end build = 70). or if you want a faking rushing QB, then you might want vision (which also helps passing in the case you want some throwing)... or if you want more of a spin or break tackle based QB, then you might want to go speed next... it all depends on the kind of rushing QB you want... but agility should be first regardless.

no cap speed first then agility then vision look at my guys build and u will like his stats so u should probly do what i do

Originally posted by mobbin5
no cap speed first then agility then vision look at my guys build and u will like his stats so u should probly do what i do

do not do this.

stats mean nothing in low levels... especially for rushing QBs. i can link you to tons of QBs that have better stat lines (and builds) than this guy's QB... granted they went with speed first as well (the point is that his QB is nothing special), but i can guarantee you that if you go with speed first, you will have an inferior build to a rushing QB that went with agility first. anyone that has the builder and or knows anything about ALGs will tell you the same.

speed first will get you stats early, but if youre looking to beast it up in the end game, agility is where you will want to start.

you will dominate the lower levels if you go speed then agility, then vision and throwing.
overall, you will lose out on agility points in the long run- you can get a higher end speed training it first,
but you will lose more agility points than you gain speed points doing so.

but, i said, what the heck, speed seems a little more important for the most part,
and i liked dominating the lower levels, and really i couldn't see my QB being slow for even a minute of her career.
she was the best player in the league from day one, and near the end of season 4 still is. so i have no complaints.

key regardless of what you do, is start with spin or juke to use the agi, get the other as soon as you can,
get QC AEQ and Pass%AEQ. those are necessities for a scrambler regardless of how you build it.
if you want to be a true duel threat, you have to be able to really throw. maybe not good enough to constantly
beat double coverage, but if they show you that you will be running free.

a real duel threat can maybe spread his points around a bit more than is good for most builds,
but then he is reliant on an OC that knows how to make a GP. he might not be the strongest passer or
fastest runner on the team, but he is the most productive passer and runner, cuz the defense doesn't know what to stop.
it also helps to be paired with a deep passer, for 3rd and a mile obvious passing situations.

Originally posted by Worker 3
do not do this.

stats mean nothing in low levels... especially for rushing QBs. i can link you to tons of QBs that have better stat lines (and builds) than this guy's QB... granted they went with speed first as well (the point is that his QB is nothing special), but i can guarantee you that if you go with speed first, you will have an inferior build to a rushing QB that went with agility first. anyone that has the builder and or knows anything about ALGs will tell you the same.

speed first will get you stats early, but if youre looking to beast it up in the end game, agility is where you will want to start.

Great advice as always Worker 3.

With my scrambler, I went a different route.

http://goallineblitz.com/game/player.pl?player_id=2151243

I capped throwing first to 77
now I'm working on vision
then I'll work on agility
then speed

while multi-training the 4 other attributes you need. Hoping for a dual-threat at higher levels, we'll see. He's ok at passing right now, but can't really run it yet, lol.

Originally posted by dc_txtech
Great advice as always Worker 3.

do what you will.

i don't know why ppl think its worth it to have a crap player for 8 or 9 seasons to have a couple good ones at the end.
obviously flaw in the dot building system that that would even be a viable strategy.

personally, its more than a year away all this stuff yr going on about, and who knows what this game will even be like then?
it might not even be in beta anymore...
i'd much rather have the undisputed #1 player RIGHT NOW, and that's Tif da Cat.
as for what happens in 6 seasons, I'll see u in WL then; and you'ld better be ready...

Originally posted by darncat
do what you will.

i don't know why ppl think its worth it to have a crap player for 8 or 9 seasons to have a couple good ones at the end.
obviously flaw in the dot building system that that would even be a viable strategy.


except that they dont suck for 8 to 9 seasons... for a rushing QB that goes agility first, it would be more like 1.5 seasons... and even then, it wont be too bad before then. on a team that i head coach, we have a rushing QB that had all of 12 speed for the first season, and he did just fine. sadly, he sucks now because now the other dots are starting to round out, and he still has a ways to go... but this rushing QB is also not a typical rushing QB. we used the deep passer archetype and are making kind of a power rusher out of him (ie 144 speed, 100 strength, 80 carrying, 75 agility 70 throwing, 8 PT, 8 Surge), and because the deep passer archetype does not get any ALGs on speed, it will still be a while before speed gets worked on... again because of how ALGs work.

but that is a pretty extreme build, and not many people are going to go that route. far more people are going to go with the speed rushing QB, and those really wont suck too bad initially if you go agility first. they will suck however at the end if you do speed first.

and really, pretty much 99% of all conceivable build types are going to be that way. only a select few builds are going to ***suck for more than 2 seasons if you know what youre doing.

***: as in do decently, if not well/above average/if not win MVP

Originally posted by KCChiefsMan
With my scrambler, I went a different route.

http://goallineblitz.com/game/player.pl?player_id=2151243

I capped throwing first to 77
now I'm working on vision
then I'll work on agility
then speed

while multi-training the 4 other attributes you need. Hoping for a dual-threat at higher levels, we'll see. He's ok at passing right now, but can't really run it yet, lol.

works as well as anything for long term build.
its gonna take a long long time for him to be a decent rusher that way tho...

Originally posted by Worker 3
except that they dont suck for 8 to 9 seasons... for a rushing QB that goes agility first, it would be more like 1.5 seasons... and even then, it wont be too bad before then. on a team that i head coach, we have a rushing QB that had all of 12 speed for the first season, and he did just fine. sadly, he sucks now because now the other dots are starting to round out, and he still has a ways to go... but this rushing QB is also not a typical rushing QB. we used the deep passer archetype and are making kind of a power rusher out of him (ie 144 speed, 100 strength, 80 carrying, 75 agility 70 throwing, 8 PT, 8 Surge), and because the deep passer archetype does not get any ALGs on speed, it will still be a while before speed gets worked on... again because of how ALGs work.

but that is a pretty extreme build, and not many people are going to go that route. far more people are going to go with the speed rushing QB, and those really wont suck too bad initially if you go agility first. they will suck however at the end if you do speed first.

and really, pretty much 99% of all conceivable build types are going to be that way. only a select few builds are going to ***suck for more than 2 seasons if you know what youre doing.

***: as in do decently, if not well/above average/if not win MVP

Tif da Cat ALREADY HAS 75 agility and 70 throwing. for an end build, that looks kinda sucky... in terms of throwing the ball...

i'm talking about a true duel threat, not a run only QB.

well the OP is asking about rushing QBs...

im terms of throwing the ball, yes. it does... the only reason for the 70 throwing is so that the QB can complete some shorter passes behind the blitz to offset the tagging he will receive. but in terms of rushing, 144 speed and 100 strength is not too shabby. especially when you take into account that most DCs blitz CBs or safeties to stop rushing QBs.

as far as a dual threat QB, it is still best to go throwing or agility first (depending on which way you want to lean towards), and it wont make you suck. speed, on a dual threat, should be the 3rd attribute you work on, if not the 4th (again depending on which way you want to lean)

umm you have never even made a QB, so i can't abide by your opinion on that

Originally posted by darncat
umm you have never even made a QB, so i can't abide by your opinion on that

maybe not... but i have been around for a while, and have run countless (as in probably well over 3000) builds through the builder, and am/have been associated with or have discussed builds with many of the elite builders in the game, concerning just about every single position except OL (i hate OL... i think its boring, haha).

the fact is, speed is a minor... i could see working on it early if it was a .33 minor... but its not. its a .25 minor. and the majors are .66 -- all of which are fairly important if you are looking to make a dual threat. because of this, it is important to take advantage of those massive ALGs and take those up first. the beauty of it is, even if you dont want one of those majors very high, you wont have to take it as high to get to your target level since the ALGs on the majors are so huge. for example, lets say you want vision to hit 70... this is a fairly low number. if you work on it second, after agility to 68, you only need to get your vision to the 48 cap and ALGs will take it all the way to 70. you work on speed and other attributes before hand, and you are going to have to make a much larger investment. the thing that i think youre hvaing trouble grasping? it doesnt work that way the other way around. well i guess i shouldnt say i doesnt... but no where near to the extent that it does for majors. if you work on speed first and then work on other attributes to get speed = X, you wont need near as a big of an investment to get speed to X if you worked on speed later as compared to the vision situation. why? because of the pitiful gains that speed gets, it wont have gone up as far as vision would have. working on a minor first when you still plan on working on majors later is a key to mediocrity. ib4 you point to your QB's stats... its a rushing/dual threat QB in the minors. its easy to have stats there. as soon as you get to tougher leagues your fortune will change; and i can almost 100% guarantee that it wont be for the better. rushing/dual threat QBs are hard to have success with in upper tiers. especially with ones that did not build efficiently (which again, does not equate to suck for 90% of their career. ive seen more good slowbuilders win MVPs at low levels than i have other builders.)

tl;dr version: if you want to download the builder (in case you havent already, i would highly recommend it), and want to run your build and compare it to a build i run through, i would be more than happy to oblige.