Warrior General Games

Just retired my QB and created a DE. I want him to be a LDE and purely rush the passer. What is the best way to train? Multi-train? Normal training?

What softcaps should I be aiming for? BTW, I'm going to boost 3 levels/season.

Was thinking:

1) agility
2) speed
3) strength
4) vision

I was thinking that multi-training agility/speed/strength was the best way to go, but I want to make sure that I'll be able to afford AEQ with BT's later in my career.

Advice welcome and needed.

Best way to go is to

Get the 10% upgrade to agility
Train agility 1 time on normal and 1 time on relaxed then get the 20% upgrade to agility

Since you just created, you won't be able to cap at level 1. There is no benefit to capping at level 2, so you may as well wait until level 3.

Train on normal collecting BTs. Before you hit level 3, start trying to get agility bar trained around 90%. You may need to adjust training to relaxed or use intense to manipulate the % so you don't go over. The key is to have it trained to a good spot before you hit level 4.

Hopefully by that time you will have 30 BT. At that point, unlock speed, strength, and vision for multi-train. Train them with agility, rolling agility over and holding sp until you can cap at 61.5 (should be level 6). There is no reason to cap at level 5 if you are only going to get to 61.0. Also, always remember, you don't have to cap as soon as you hit the level. You just have to do it before reaching the next level. So you may want to train just agility after you hit level 6 and before you hit level 7 to fill up the training bar before you cap.


Also, as you collect the BT, do the +10% upgrades to speed, strength, vision, then do the +20% upgrade to them.

I'm not going to go through an entire training cycle, but that would be a good start.

That's awesome info! Thanks! Some of it seems to be over my head. Can you explain what you mean by this:

"Since you just created, you won't be able to cap at level 1. There is no benefit to capping at level 2, so you may as well wait until level 3."

and this...

"There is no reason to cap at level 5 if you are only going to get to 61.0. Also, always remember, you don't have to cap as soon as you hit the level. You just have to do it before reaching the next level."

Originally posted by Rage Kinard
Best way to go is to

Get the 10% upgrade to agility
Train agility 1 time on normal and 1 time on relaxed then get the 20% upgrade to agility

Since you just created, you won't be able to cap at level 1. There is no benefit to capping at level 2, so you may as well wait until level 3.

Train on normal collecting BTs. Before you hit level 3, start trying to get agility bar trained around 90%. You may need to adjust training to relaxed or use intense to manipulate the % so you don't go over. The key is to have it trained to a good spot before you hit level 4.

Hopefully by that time you will have 30 BT. At that point, unlock speed, strength, and vision for multi-train. Train them with agility, rolling agility over and holding sp until you can cap at 61.5 (should be level 6). There is no reason to cap at level 5 if you are only going to get to 61.0. Also, always remember, you don't have to cap as soon as you hit the level. You just have to do it before reaching the next level. So you may want to train just agility after you hit level 6 and before you hit level 7 to fill up the training bar before you cap.


Also, as you collect the BT, do the +10% upgrades to speed, strength, vision, then do the +20% upgrade to them.

I'm not going to go through an entire training cycle, but that would be a good start.

So you multi-train already after capping your 1st attribute? why that?
wouldn't it be more effective training your 1st attribute, capping it, train your 2nd until you can cap? Then you can decide if going training your 3rd and then multi-train 4,5,6,7; or you go multi 3-4-5-6.
Where am I wrong in my "method"? You would reach the softcap of your 2nd attribute faster, right?

Originally posted by Tasco
So you multi-train already after capping your 1st attribute? why that?
wouldn't it be more effective training your 1st attribute, capping it, train your 2nd until you can cap? Then you can decide if going training your 3rd and then multi-train 4,5,6,7; or you go multi 3-4-5-6.
Where am I wrong in my "method"? You would reach the softcap of your 2nd attribute faster, right?

Because of the huge advantages to the overall build from multi-training.

Multi-training x4 gives a 30% bonus (to the base +enhanced value) and you get the equivalent of 1.5 BT per day.

While you won't hit caps as fast, and will lose out on ALGs, you more than make up for the ALG loss (which is only 0.5 sp per level up) with training gains from multi-train which is typically over 0.6 sp every time I multi-train.

Let's say I'm normal training an attribute at 49 that has been enhanced 1x

I will get 11% per day. That is worth 0.22 sp per day since I'm above the cap. In addition, 2 BT worth a total of .167 sp per day. So 0.387 sp per day in training. Every 4 days I get a 1.548 sp value.

Now I'm training on intense

I will get 15% per day. That is worth 0.3 sp per day. Plus I get .083 value from the BT. That is 0.383 sp per day. Every 4 days I get a 1.543 sp value.

Now I multi-train.

I will get 20% per training when I train it. That is 0.4 sp per train. That attribute will go up at 1/2 the speed if I were training on normal and at 1/3 the speed if I were training on intense. However, I'm also training 3 other attributes. For arguments sake, let's say that those attributes are at 33, 30, and 25 and are each upgraded 10%. I would get 52%, 43%, and 38% from training them. So every 4 days I would get 0.4 + 0.52 + 0.43 + 0.38 sp value from training. That is 1.73. In addition, I get 6 bonus tokens for a value of 0.498 sp. So 2.228 sp value every 4 days.

If you go to the 20% enhancement on the attributes, the value gets even higher per train,

I can take those extra sp I save from training and invest in the primary attributes at a higher cap. So what if I'm spending an extra sp to go from 69-70 instead of 67-68. I more than made up for that sp expenditure with training.

thanks for the explanation!

Great answer Kinard. People should take advantage of that 30% bonus ASAP. Perhaps players need to be better informed? I am shock that not many people know you get 30% bonus on training when you quad-train. I know many players are just double- or triple- training.

Originally posted by Racktacular
That's awesome info! Thanks! Some of it seems to be over my head. Can you explain what you mean by this:

"Since you just created, you won't be able to cap at level 1. There is no benefit to capping at level 2, so you may as well wait until level 3."

and this...

"There is no reason to cap at level 5 if you are only going to get to 61.0. Also, always remember, you don't have to cap as soon as you hit the level. You just have to do it before reaching the next level."


Sure.

The first 2 caps are at 48.06 and 60.51.

Let's say your player has an attribute at 30.5 and you have 20 sp. That means it takes you 18 sp to get to 48.5 and then 2 more sp to get to 49.5. With your next level up, you would get .5 sp and go to 50. If you were to level up from 30.5 to 31 and then add the sp, then it would cost 18 sp to go from 31 to 49 and 2 more to go from 49 to 50, so 20 sp. (This was just an example. In both cases, I would advise only spending 18 sp and then holding the other 2 unless you are done training the attribute you would be applying sp to)

The same holds true for going to the second cap. To go from 51 to 61 cost 20 sp. To go from 51.5 to 61.5 cost 20 sp. There is no sp advantage for capping at 61 instead of 61.5.


As far as not capping at level 1 -

If a player is created on day 41 of an off season, they have 7 to 8 extra days of training over a player created on day -8 of a preseason. That is typically the difference between being able to get to 49 at level 1 and only being able to get to 48.

WARNING: Those calculations do not apply to any 3-major position, and even for a 4-major position the difference between ALG and overall training gains are small. I do not think it is that linear, rage, but we've discussed this quite a few many times so no worth continuing

The numbers do not lie however, quad training as early as possible leads to a higher SP player then currently any other method allows. With almost no downside , except you must cap your first attribute a bare minimum of 73 to allow time for the quad training 2nd stat to be ready to cap by the time you reach first cap.

The issue is not "as early as possible" but "for as long as possible"... Starting early obviously lets you go on longer without running into issues like training at very inefficient values, but it is NOT the only thing one should worry about.

Originally posted by Hagalaz
The issue is not "as early as possible" but "for as long as possible"... Starting early obviously lets you go on longer without running into issues like training at very inefficient values, but it is NOT the only thing one should worry about.

What is an in-efficient level for quad trainin exactly?

Same as for any other training. 40-48, 55-60, 64-67, etc. It's more efficient to train right after the caps than before you take them.

Originally posted by Hagalaz
Same as for any other training. 40-48, 55-60, 64-67, etc. It's more efficient to train right after the caps than before you take them.

Yeah, that is true, i have had one of my players keep messing up my cap efficiency by gaining a point mid way through, but in the end...its still a point up, and every other stat continuing to gain at exceptional efficiency. Plus quad training after the cap 68-92 is stilll quite effecient in my book(roughly 1 to 1.5 points per season (5-20+ skill point value) ), so long as you still have at least one of the quads under 33-39.

For the moment, i still firmly believe 5-6 seasons of quadding , broken up after the first 3 straight seasons, is going to be the way to go if you are seeking highest SP/training efficiency while still getting full EQ.

I agree with 5, not with 6. I was aiming for 4 as I calculated, but now I can see I can push a bit further.