Warrior General Games

I'm thinking about making one next season with this new archtype BS.

Besides pumping the shit out of str and agil, how would you distribute the equipment?

Would you dump it all into str and make it eventually 120+ or would you distribute it evenly between str and agil, getting both over 100?

Originally posted by L_R
I'm thinking about making one next season with this new archtype BS.

Besides pumping the shit out of str and agil, how would you distribute the equipment?

Would you dump it all into str and make it eventually 120+ or would you distribute it evenly between str and agil, getting both over 100?

I would do both over 100, unless you want to sacrifice that agility and plan to spend some points on speed in case you get wrapped up a bit.

I would go 105 each perhaps.

All EQ in STR, Strong base at 14.
If you take STr over 80, you go all STr, the goal is to overpower them and have most of your SA's in the containment tree. Agi to 77, and with nat level gains you'll have about 85 at lvl 55, SPD to 77 you'll have 80 at 55. With all EQ in STR if you take STR to 77 you should be seeing 88-90 STR at 55 + EQ so easily 120+, you want to murder the guard, the tackle and the TE so that you are free to attempt a tackle and maybe even get behind the line for a TFL, the point is to break the block as quick as possible, and if you split EQ and have less STR then the dot's blocking you, then what was the point of the extra STR.

You guys are talking about Containment DE's from a Pass rusher Point of View... AGI is not THAT important for a Containment DE, take it to 77 after STr and leave it alone, you have more than enough for your role... you have no SA's depending on AGI. You should have any points in shed blocks, you should be using power style rushing, so no technique man, why 100+ AGI, what is it doing for a pure Run Stuffing DE? Nothing. 77 is more than enough to accelerate after knocking the guard on his ass, you don't have far to go and the HB/FB should be coming at you anyway, otherwise he's running to the weak side and your secondary should be there. Your job is to plug a side up and force them to run to the other side because they can't run through you... let me ask again... What is AGI going to accomplish towards this task??? Nothing.

No EQ in AGI unless you are building a Pass rusher, past 80 it's wasted points for a Containment DE.

Agi is a _MAJOR_ influence in your tacklemaking ability, specially while being blocked. To say a containment DE does not need it is simply wrong.

If you think it is wasted points, I suggest you go out and test that theory. Soon you'll see it's wrong.

I agree agility is a major stat for breaking blocks and keeping your balance in case you lose the block roll- which is something every DE needs to do. I'd go crazy with strength and agility (77 str followed by 77 agility) and then put all my gear into strength to get some reverse pancakes and help take advantage of bull rusher va. I would still focus on the pass rusher tree as a containment DE, if only because Shed Blocks is so awesome.

Yea I'd go a little over 100 and as high speed as possible with decent vision and tackling.

Originally posted by Hagalaz
Agi is a _MAJOR_ influence in your tacklemaking ability, specially while being blocked. To say a containment DE does not need it is simply wrong.

If you think it is wasted points, I suggest you go out and test that theory. Soon you'll see it's wrong.

I'm testing it right now
http://goallineblitz.com/game/player.pl?player_id=1678463
That's the beauty of GLB after all, we can put our money where our mouth's are... once I finish off AGI at 77 and move to SPD and TKL, we can see if my idea is effective or not, but so far my DE has no trouble breaking off from blocks to make the tackle. We'll see if that changes as my competition begins to round out their builds as well.

My plan is to not touch the pass rusher tree at all, with wall and Strong base at ludicrous levels and bull rusher, Pocket Crusher, Heavy Weight, and Pass Rusher Maxed out... we'll see how he does.

check out this guide:

http://goallineblitz.com/game/forum_thread.pl?thread_id=2495196

solid advice for a run stuffer but can be modified for any build type.

That guide is almost a year old.
The sim was completely different then... hence Wall and Strong Base being called "experimental, unproven SA's."

That guide was posted when The Agility Empire ruled D-line build techniques.
That guide is for peaking at ~level 45-level 50

I respect you larson and a lot of the D-line builds you've made are dominant... but O-line build strategies are changing, and that guide would've made an effective containment DE a year ago... but now it's going to seriously gimp a build at later levels, especially with how much the O-line is jacking up STR. With other builds building for long term success as a run stuffer you also have to as well. A run stuffer needs to overpower the O-Line, and most OT's are going to have 115-125 STR ~level 55, if you build to have less STR then them you will be less able to pancake/disengage from blockers quickly. A runstuffer IMO needs to disengage from/revcake their blocker within the first 5 ticks of engaging, otherwise the RB is already past them. So IMO, a run stuffing dot needs to Overpower the OT ASAP, and the way to do that is 120+ STR.

Circle capping, like that guide suggests may lead to more short term success, but robs STR of quite a few SP's and means STR cannot be taken as high in the end game build... and ultimately if your dot is succesfully engaged by the blocker your dot can't do jack. Your dot needs to pancake the blocker, stun the blocker, or disengage from the black to make the tackle. I personally see more succesful disengagement's from STR types than I do from AGI types when run blocking...

I'm not discounting AGI, I'm still taking it to 77, but my point is that added EQ to AGI will not bring added value to a run-stuffing DE... but added EQ to STR on this same player brings a lot of added value.

Str to 77
Agi to 77
Spd to 77
TKL to 62
Vis to 62
JUM to 55
Train STA+CON
forever
Run Stuffer Tree
4-8-8-4-4
+CEQ 5-9-9-5-5

AEQ in Strong Base bringing it to 14
AEQ in Wall bringing it to 14... or in MH taking it to to 10 or in BB%

Possible Bonus SA of Aura of Intimidation, Break Through or the new SA Gang Tackle due to the clustered nature of the D-line

All EQ in STR

I'm currently building a DE that will be at 90 natural strenght by level 60 which should be around 130 with equip I imagine. Currently he's slow as hell, but I'm going to be upping his agility and speed soon. Basically he is at 76 strength at lvl 13. At 15 I'm going to add one more point (the last of the 5 cap) to make it 78.

Since you start out training strength/tackling I wonder if you are better off taking tackling to the cap before speed. After agility though of course.

This is my first DE, by the way so I don't really know anything. Kind of an experiment.

When I think "containment" DE, I think all strength. A goal of 120 is great. You'll collapse the pocket and get tons of reverse pancakes.

You'll find, at the upper levels, that you will need 75-80 speed, in order to effectively hit the line when they drop back into pass protection (although a good amount of first step may be able to make up for that). Decent vision is a must, as well.

Agility is good, but ~75ish is more than enough.

As for tackling, that kind of depends. You'll quite likely find that (against good opponents at least) you won't be in position to make a ton of tackles...your job will be more to push tackles and TEs around, and wreak havok with the other teams blocking. Not to say that you won't be doing your job, but your main task will be closing off running lanes and eliminating blockers, freeing up the linebackers and safeties to make the plays. So unless you find yourself making a ton of tackles, I wouldn't worry about tackling.

I know the main goal is to eat up blockers or knock them down so the LBs can make plays. I guess I am kind of thinking about this one monster DT I remember from a while back that would wreak havoc and force fumbles on the rare occasions he did make a tackle. Granted this DE will only have a chance on the inside runs since he isn't going to be fast enough to get to the outside ones.

Originally posted by MileHighShoes
That guide is almost a year old.
The sim was completely different then... hence Wall and Strong Base being called "experimental, unproven SA's."

Are these good SA's these days? It been a while since I've asked opinions re: DLine SA's. In another thread, someone mentioned Strong Base as being something good for Run Stuffers, like an NT.

Originally posted by Stonewall Paul
I know the main goal is to eat up blockers or knock them down so the LBs can make plays. I guess I am kind of thinking about this one monster DT I remember from a while back that would wreak havoc and force fumbles on the rare occasions he did make a tackle. Granted this DE will only have a chance on the inside runs since he isn't going to be fast enough to get to the outside ones.

Totally agree with that, I was just saying that getting tackling up that high is a secondary concern.

Once you get the strength and agility where they should be, however, tackling is a great skill to work on. Confidence as well.