Warrior General Games

How high/low of catching is the most effective, in you opinion, for a WR?

Most build's I've ever seen have between 49 and 70, some higher and a few lower.

Is 70 about the point where increases are less effective?

Is 49 roughly the "basement" of effectiveness?

Thoughts?

stop raising catching/vision/jumping/strength/carrying/confidence when you're catching 100% and targeted regularly

Bort has said the higher the speed, the more vision and catching you need to bring the ball in.


I think it is similar for catching. If you have high catching, you probably need more vision and jumping to fully utilize it. Increased catching alone will expand your catching range, but if you don't increase jumping and vision to compensate then then will be your limiting factors and the extra catching will be wasted. Think of it as your high catching range is 90 and your vision range is 68. You won't see the ball until it is in your vision range, you may have the ability to catch it at 90 range, but if it isn't seen until 68 vision range you have much less time to adjust to the catch. So if you pushed your vision up to say a 90 range, then you can see the ball sooner, adjust and increase your chance to be in position for the catch.

This is what I am led to believe from the WRs I have built whether it is true or not.

^ That's an interesting theory.

Personally I think that these days 60 is the absolute minimum for any kind of relevance, with most good receivers having 70+.

Originally posted by DeAngelo Williams
^ That's an interesting theory.

BTW, I see no need for catching to be pointed with SP past 68.

Most balls are thrown accurately, and as such WRs do not need to use vision to adjust to them.

Higher catch = higher anti-PD roll. Peeps just stop at the 3rd cap because it sounds good, but it has no relevance as to what the "optimal" cost effective amount of catching is.

Originally posted by Mob-6
BTW, I see no need for catching to be pointed with SP past 68.

have you ever had a corner that gets a pd but the WR still makes the catch. 90+ catching is frustrating.

Originally posted by SunshineMan89
Personally I think that these days 60 is the absolute minimum for any kind of relevance, with most good receivers having 70+.

I tend to disagree, IMO it is a personal decision. I think catching should be trained early after speed and agility and only raised to 48. Once you start specializing your build then rethink your next cap for catching.

For my WR i looked at performance to determine catching. I had only a handful of drops per season so why would i waste Sp in catching if i dont drop the ball. Once PDs started to rise i rose the catching a bit till they dropped. my catching is only in the low 60s.

Basically you see people ruin WR builds due to getting catching up in the 70s. New Wrs start with catching. Both are bad ideas .

JMO

Originally posted by sjkiller81
I tend to disagree, IMO it is a personal decision. I think catching should be trained early after speed and agility and only raised to 48. Once you start specializing your build then rethink your next cap for catching.

For my WR i looked at performance to determine catching. I had only a handful of drops per season so why would i waste Sp in catching if i dont drop the ball. Once PDs started to rise i rose the catching a bit till they dropped. my catching is only in the low 60s.

Basically you see people ruin WR builds due to getting catching up in the 70s. New Wrs start with catching. Both are bad ideas .

JMO

It's not that easy though. You really need to keep track of targets. Many high level WRs are catching 75%+ of ALL passes thrown to them because they have high catching or use all of the catching VAs and the +Catch pass % AEQ.

High catching helps counter the PD roll of the CB. Even though you don't drop the ball, there are still things that you can build that will help complete a pass.

Yes, but it is a trade off. you cannot build catching to such high levels without reducing the level you take another Attribute. I prefer agility WR or more like a balanced WR. I catch passes but also have moves to get YAC. Possession WR can boost catching to such heights along with the VAs and such put they turn themselves into possession only WRs. I prefer Balance. If you arent dropping or having a lot of PDs then catching can be disregarded while you focus on speed or agility or Fake SAs.

Point is not all WRs are alike. Catching is important ONLY if you make it important. You can have a highly successful WR with catching below 68. Every thing in this game is a trade off.

Originally posted by sjkiller81
Yes, but it is a trade off. you cannot build catching to such high levels without reducing the level you take another Attribute. I prefer agility WR or more like a balanced WR..

My balanced WR will have 95 speed, 95 agility and 85 catching at lv70 so idk wtf you're talking about
there are plenty of SP to go around. It's not nearly as limited as you'd think

Originally posted by sjkiller81
Yes, but it is a trade off. you cannot build catching to such high levels without reducing the level you take another Attribute. I prefer agility WR or more like a balanced WR. I catch passes but also have moves to get YAC. Possession WR can boost catching to such heights along with the VAs and such put they turn themselves into possession only WRs. I prefer Balance. If you arent dropping or having a lot of PDs then catching can be disregarded while you focus on speed or agility or Fake SAs.

Point is not all WRs are alike. Catching is important ONLY if you make it important. You can have a highly successful WR with catching below 68. Every thing in this game is a trade off.

It's true, you can have a successful WR with sub-68 catching. If you have 140+ speed.

Basically, unless you can guarantee you will get separation on every route you run, that your QB will always throw a perfect pass so that the defender doesn't have time to catch up, and that your QB will always have time to allow you to gain separation, you absolutely need 68+ catching.

If you ever have to catch contested passes (which every receiver in the game has to), then good CBs will eat you for lunch with low catching. Most good CBs these days have enough bonuses to their deflection coefficient that unless you can win the anti-PD roll consistently you will have trouble.

Originally posted by Djinnt
My balanced WR will have 95 speed, 95 agility and 85 catching at lv70 so idk wtf you're talking about
there are plenty of SP to go around. It's not nearly as limited as you'd think

not sure what WR you are refering too. your profile shows no player over 50.
95 speed is slow BTW so your trade off is speed and SAs.

Originally posted by SunshineMan89
It's true, you can have a successful WR with sub-68 catching. If you have 140+ speed.

Basically, unless you can guarantee you will get separation on every route you run, that your QB will always throw a perfect pass so that the defender doesn't have time to catch up, and that your QB will always have time to allow you to gain separation, you absolutely need 68+ catching.

If you ever have to catch contested passes (which every receiver in the game has to), then good CBs will eat you for lunch with low catching. Most good CBs these days have enough bonuses to their deflection coefficient that unless you can win the anti-PD roll consistently you will have trouble.

Again not sure where your experience and knowledge in this comes from, you dont even have a WR built.


Besides that: you bring up a good point about the Corners. That is why I was suggesting boosting Catching once you find your WR losing the battle with the Corners. Unlike you two I have a WR and have had one as well as have coached the OC for AAA, AA teams. Rarely do I use a WR with over 70 catching. They all perform quit well without it. Do corners PD them some? yes. But how often? a handful of times per WR per season? If that is all then it would be a royal waste of SP to try to eliminate 4-5 or even 5-10 PDs in a season by posting catching from 68-73 or 77 costing 20+ SP points. A better return would be using a VA or maybe a few points into a catching SA. Either way catching is being over rated by many WRs IMO

Your getting a little ahead of yourself sj given last seasons stats for your teams. Lets take the London Royals as an example, your best consistant WR was a lvl70 who is no longer with your team in Noonan, he caught 66% of targets and 28% of all targets were PD'd. Otherwise you had a badly built possession WR in Jones who couldn't get open or you used badly, and three poorly built WRs (including your own) that caught within a percent or two of 50% for the season (all of which suffered >40% targets PD'd). You pulled this off in SA AAA, a league that's average or below for AAA standards.

As someone who struggled with a similar range of WRs at Pro level last year it's a nightmare, and unless you've got a dominant run game and a great D your going to struggle to develop your team beyond maybe a lower level Pro squad with your 60 catch crew. Surely as an OC yourself you must have torn your hair out at times against the top teams not being able to pass consistantly, having that extra catching doesn't help out against regular opposition but it's those few really tough games you will find yourself needing those reliable 3rd and 6 conversions high catch %age WRs offer. I agree it's not all just down to your catching skill, but i'd say 75 is the minimum for catching at AAA or higher to truly have a functional base for a pass game.