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Forum > European Pro League > Western Europe Conference > Cheeseballs Ruining the Fun in WEPL?
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Let me say two things up front: The Ballers and Pimps are great (not good) teams. I have always enjoyed playing them and look forward to more great games in the future. This post is in no way meant to disparage either of those teams ... That said:

I've kept pretty quiet lately as these rants have gone on and on and several people have lashed out at Stockholm as a team and me personally. I've let it slide because hey, it's fair game to say what you want about me or the team as a whole. But it's hit another level now where people are calling out specific people on the team and bashing their accomplishments. For that, I can't just let my guys be thrown under the bus. So, as an owner and as a (formerly) respected member of the WEPL community I feel that I can't just sit back any longer and be quiet.

You can take all the shots you want at me personally and the Meatballs as a team if it makes you feel better. But I'd ask that before you did so, you really take the time to consider exactly what it is that you're bashing ...

You claim that we're exploiting the sim's issues with power backs.

To that I have several responses:

1. 13-3. That was our record in the regular season. Mal was our anchor, but we also managed to have the league leader in TD receptions, 2nd in receiving yards, two other 500+ yard receivers, another HB who chipped in close to 1,000 yards not to mention a defense that smothered opponents all season long. We didn't exploit anything during the regular season and still won 13 games in a brutal conference. No one complained.

2. Season 7 WEPL Champs. We the title last year by riding Mal as far as his giant legs would carry us and no one complained -- in fact we were applauded for it. Why is that different now?

3. We've always been a power rushing team. Seasons 1-7 were the same for us. No one complained when we won last year even though we went Mal heavy. No one complained in Season 6 when we got bounced from the playoffs in the first round for going Mal heavy either. No one in AAA complained when we rode the backs of Glow and Just Win (two power backs) to the crown there either. So I ask you this, why are we being punished for the fact that the sim right now favors power backs and we're a power back team? We didn't change our identity to exploit anything. It is who we have been from the start. Should we suddenly STOP using Mal and try to be a team that passes 50 times a games (something we've never been ... though I've tried) just because you don't like it? I could understand your point if we were a bad team, or a pass first team, who signed a power back at the trade deadline and completely changed identities to exploit a bug -- but we're not. And you know it.

4. Those that actually look at the game film (and not just a stat line) will see we haven't exclusively run the Strong I Slam. It's not even in our top 3 plays. We have run Mal. A ton. Those who actually look at the game film will also realize that it's not just Mal who's doing this ... it's the great play of our defense. Our offense didn't get inside the 20 on the Pimps today once -- but we won because our defense was amazing against a very good offensive team. And to complain that we are only winning because of exploiting one play (which isn't true) is a huge slap in the face of the great agents we have on defense and our amazing DC Jestel who has done an incredible job the past few seasons.

You claim that you lost respect for me personally for "taking the fun out of the game" and for "driving good agents to want to quit."

For this I can't really say anything. If people want to quit because they aren't winning then that's their issue. I can't control it. If people want to blame the fact that they aren't winning on us -- that's their right. If people want to punish us and call us cheesers because the sim favors our style of play, I also can't do anything about that.

But I will be honest and say that those remarks are a huge punch in my face personally.

The one thing I've always done is try to make this game fun. I have expended countless hours doing write ups, participating in the forums and helping make GLB a cooler place. I don't have to do any of those things. I do them because I choose to. Because I enjoy the game and want to try to make it fun for everyone. So to say that I'm ruining the game for people -- well that's just a big fuck you to the time I've put into this thing.

But again. I can't control that. People are going to think what they want to think. But if you really, honestly look at the situation, you'll see that we're being thrown unfairly under the bus here. We're being made out to be cheaters unjustly because some people need a scapegoat to make themselves feel better.

If that's to be our role, fine. Just don't expect me to take it quietly.
 
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While I hate what the issues with the power HB (and any HB with some bruiser VA's for that matter) has done to the game this season. I for one do not hold Stockholm accountable for any of it. you have played to your strengths and that is that. Obviously the frustration levels all over the GLB community are high and I think we need to take a step back and acknowledge that it will get better (and if it doesn't, we won't all be hear to bitch about it anyway).

We still have a great bunch of owners/gm's and players in WEPL who for the most part respect each other and get along. Let's keep it that way.



 
Zickzack
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A few things, some very vocal players from your own team have said that they felt that you guys were making use of the serious flaw in the current sim. They even went so far to state that they implored you to do it and that you "only" started to do it once the playoffs started. If you claim you didn't maybe you should inform the agents on your team about that so you guys are all on the same page.

Originally posted by Fat Daddy Cash

For this I can't really say anything. If people want to quit because they aren't winning then that's their issue.

And this statement proves that you get it as little as Arthur Riot or jprietman. People are not considering to qui because they are not winning. If they cared that much about winning they'd likely run the same stuff three of the final four teams are running. They consider quitting because it isn't fun to watch a game where some teams do the same stuff again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again (Bored yet? See how it goes?), and no matter what you try to do there is no way you can stop it. It is just boring and no fun to watch.

Originally posted by
But I will be honest and say that those remarks are a huge punch in my face personally.

Well, good then, because that is what at least some people feel about teams abusing flaws in the sim. With all due appreciation for your past efforts, that still does not make up for essentially slapping a goood number of other teams in the face. The same FU you feel for some of us calling you out, well, that is the same FU we experience when we watch the stuff that some teams all around GLB are pulling in these playoffs.

Stockholm clearly are a very good team, as you already mentioned, which makes it even more sad that you stoop so low to go through with this cheese, as you could probably win it again without resorting to it. But if you are happy to do it, well, I guess you play First Person shooters with wall hacks as well, or move the pieces on a chess board while your opponent isn't looking, after all it's all about winning, right?

As for running Mal last season too, don't kid yourself, he had less than half the carries he had this season. But go ahead, make up the stuff as it fits your own perception of yourself, just don't expect everyone to take it quietly, as you so aptly put it.


 
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You're missing the point ZZ.

We're not cheesing. Or cheating. Or doing one play over and over and over again. Watch the film and you'll see that. We are running Mal heavy but we've always done that.

The point is that we're not abusing a system -- we're doing what we've always done. It just so happens that the sim favors that approach now.

Imagine the sim had a serious bug in the deep passing game where teams with fast WRs and a good QB could score 50 points a game that way. Now, say the Roughnecks of old were winning in the playoffs with their passing attack -- would they be cheating? No. It's what they were known for.

What you're suggesting is that we should abandon what we've always done, change our core philosophy JUST BECAUSE THE SIM IS BROKEN.

And I ask, why? What good would that do anyone?
 
coreyls18
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Originally posted by Fat Daddy Cash
Imagine the sim had a serious bug in the deep passing game where teams with fast WRs and a good QB could score 50 points a game that way. Now, say the Roughnecks of old were winning in the playoffs with their passing attack -- would they be cheating? No. It's what they were known for.


whoohooo thanks for the mention...been awhile, haha. And you will see that same approach next season Be ready
 
Jiddy78
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Originally posted by Jiddy78
We lost because I couldn't find the offensive G spot as Stockholm's defense took a shat on me.

Nothing more...Nothing less.


Reiterated.
 
jestel
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Damn, I typed up my rant in the wrong thread
 
Kevin Smith
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Every game FDC comes up with the same old "We´ll be passing more" line and myself and others do our utmost to beat it out of him.

However, we do a shitload of scouting and game planning on our forum, with at least 10 of us heavily involved, and the success story that is the Cheeseball defense is not getting it´s due because a lot of people just can´t stop harping on about the strong Islam. We´re already heavily into our game thread for A Team Of Cheese And Fire. We all enjoy the game a lot and none of like the way the sim has turned out this season.

I´ll be honest here, in order of GLB enjoyment, this is how it ranks to me:

Win in a fun way
Win in a non fun way
Lose

In season 8 if you are shooting for #1, you are risking #3. And let´s face it, the way you´re acting makes me think winning is important to you too. Otherwise, there would be nothing to complain about. Just leave the winning to the teams willing to cheese, and enjoy the fun games with the others.
 
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For the record I dont have a problem with a run heavy offense. I have a problem with this...

Mal Brown rush to the right (6.5 yd gain) [tackle: Tyde Prater] Replay
11:56 2nd & 3.5 OWN 8 Mal Brown rush to the right (4.5 yd gain) [tackle: Tyde Prater] Replay
11:29 1st & 10 OWN 12.5 Mal Brown rush to the right (3.5 yd gain) [tackle: Charles Wagon] Replay
10:57 2nd & 6.5 OWN 16 Mal Brown rush to the right (9 yd gain) [tackle: KAboom I. blewyouupAgain] Replay
10:34 1st & 10 OWN 25 Mal Brown rush to the right (4.5 yd gain) [tackle: Quille Odom] Replay
10:11 2nd & 5.5 OWN 29 Mal Brown rush to the right (3 yd gain) [tackle: Charles Wagon] Replay
9:38 3rd & 2.5 OWN 32.5 Mal Brown rush to the right (4 yd gain) [tackle: Johnny Wad] Replay
9:08 1st & 10 OWN 36.5 Mal Brown rush [missed tackle: Daniel Thompson] to the right (5.5 yd gain) [tackle: Tyde Prater] Replay
8:35 2nd & 4.5 OWN 42 Mal Brown rush [missed tackle: KAboom I. blewyouupAgain] [missed tackle: La Sacka] to the right (3.5 yd gain) [diving tackle: Bill "Repo Man" Williamson] Replay
7:52 3rd & 1 OWN 45.5 Mal Brown rush [missed tackle: Quille Odom] to the right (8.5 yd gain) [tackle: Lorenzo Williams] Replay
7:17 1st & 10 OPP 46 Mal Brown rush to the right (1 yd gain) [tackle: DB Dykes] Replay
6:31 2nd & 9 OPP 45 Mal Brown rush to the right (5 yd gain) [Monster Hit tackle: KAboom I. blewyouupAgain] Replay
6:05 3rd & 4 OPP 40 Rydin Pine pass to Xavier Rhodes over the middle [deflected by Lenny Bailey] (incomplete)


12 rushes to the right for 58.5 yards in the 4th Q that ate up 6 minutes off the clock in a one possesion ball game. It's not like you are going up against scrubs with 30 strength and 30 tackling either. If my computer wasn't so slow I'd look and see how many of those were Strong I Slams (which everyone knows has been overpowered for a couple seasons now)
 
Duckfan127
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Waits for FDC 's excuse

Mal Brown rush to the right (6.5 yd gain) [tackle: Tyde Prater] Replay
11:56 2nd & 3.5 OWN 8 Mal Brown rush to the right (4.5 yd gain) [tackle: Tyde Prater] Replay
11:29 1st & 10 OWN 12.5 Mal Brown rush to the right (3.5 yd gain) [tackle: Charles Wagon] Replay
10:57 2nd & 6.5 OWN 16 Mal Brown rush to the right (9 yd gain) [tackle: KAboom I. blewyouupAgain] Replay
10:34 1st & 10 OWN 25 Mal Brown rush to the right (4.5 yd gain) [tackle: Quille Odom] Replay
10:11 2nd & 5.5 OWN 29 Mal Brown rush to the right (3 yd gain) [tackle: Charles Wagon] Replay
9:38 3rd & 2.5 OWN 32.5 Mal Brown rush to the right (4 yd gain) [tackle: Johnny Wad] Replay
9:08 1st & 10 OWN 36.5 Mal Brown rush [missed tackle: Daniel Thompson] to the right (5.5 yd gain) [tackle: Tyde Prater] Replay
8:35 2nd & 4.5 OWN 42 Mal Brown rush [missed tackle: KAboom I. blewyouupAgain] [missed tackle: La Sacka] to the right (3.5 yd gain) [diving tackle: Bill "Repo Man" Williamson] Replay
7:52 3rd & 1 OWN 45.5 Mal Brown rush [missed tackle: Quille Odom] to the right (8.5 yd gain) [tackle: Lorenzo Williams] Replay
7:17 1st & 10 OPP 46 Mal Brown rush to the right (1 yd gain) [tackle: DB Dykes] Replay
6:31 2nd & 9 OPP 45 Mal Brown rush to the right (5 yd gain) [Monster Hit tackle: KAboom I. blewyouupAgain] Replay
6:05 3rd & 4 OPP 40 Rydin Pine pass to Xavier Rhodes over the middle [deflected by Lenny Bailey] (incomplete)
 
coreyls18
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^^i have no problem with that in the 4th quarter...thats just good offense there and draining the clock. Now if that goes on in the 1st half..then it would be irritating
 
Duckfan127
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Originally posted by Fat Daddy Cash
Let me say two things up front: The Ballers and Pimps are great (not good) teams. I have always enjoyed playing them and look forward to more great games in the future. This post is in no way meant to disparage either of those teams ... That said: ( Really means the only we can win is by doing the slam over and over)

I've kept pretty quiet lately as these rants have gone on and on and several people have lashed out at Stockholm as a team and me personally. I've let it slide because hey, it's fair game to say what you want about me or the team as a whole. But it's hit another level now where people are calling out specific people on the team and bashing their accomplishments. For that, I can't just let my guys be thrown under the bus. So, as an owner and as a (formerly) respected member of the WEPL community I feel that I can't just sit back any longer and be quiet.

You can take all the shots you want at me personally and the Meatballs as a team if it makes you feel better. But I'd ask that before you did so, you really take the time to consider exactly what it is that you're bashing ...

You claim that we're exploiting the sim's issues with power backs.

To that I have several responses:

1. 13-3. That was our record in the regular season. Mal was our anchor, but we also managed to have the league leader in TD receptions, 2nd in receiving yards, two other 500+ yard receivers, another HB who chipped in close to 1,000 yards not to mention a defense that smothered opponents all season long. We didn't exploit anything during the regular season and still won 13 games in a brutal conference. No one complained.

2. Season 7 WEPL Champs. We the title last year by riding Mal as far as his giant legs would carry us and no one complained -- in fact we were applauded for it. Why is that different now?

3. We've always been a power rushing team. Seasons 1-7 were the same for us. No one complained when we won last year even though we went Mal heavy. No one complained in Season 6 when we got bounced from the playoffs in the first round for going Mal heavy either. No one in AAA complained when we rode the backs of Glow and Just Win (two power backs) to the crown there either. So I ask you this, why are we being punished for the fact that the sim right now favors power backs and we're a power back team? We didn't change our identity to exploit anything. It is who we have been from the start. Should we suddenly STOP using Mal and try to be a team that passes 50 times a games (something we've never been ... though I've tried) just because you don't like it? I could understand your point if we were a bad team, or a pass first team, who signed a power back at the trade deadline and completely changed identities to exploit a bug -- but we're not. And you know it.

4. Those that actually look at the game film (and not just a stat line) will see we haven't exclusively run the Strong I Slam. It's not even in our top 3 plays. We have run Mal. A ton. Those who actually look at the game film will also realize that it's not just Mal who's doing this ... it's the great play of our defense. Our offense didn't get inside the 20 on the Pimps today once -- but we won because our defense was amazing against a very good offensive team. And to complain that we are only winning because of exploiting one play (which isn't true) is a huge slap in the face of the great agents we have on defense and our amazing DC Jestel who has done an incredible job the past few seasons.

You claim that you lost respect for me personally for "taking the fun out of the game" and for "driving good agents to want to quit."

For this I can't really say anything. If people want to quit because they aren't winning then that's their issue. I can't control it. If people want to blame the fact that they aren't winning on us -- that's their right. If people want to punish us and call us cheesers because the sim favors our style of play, I also can't do anything about that.

But I will be honest and say that those remarks are a huge punch in my face personally.

The one thing I've always done is try to make this game fun. I have expended countless hours doing write ups, participating in the forums and helping make GLB a cooler place. I don't have to do any of those things. I do them because I choose to. Because I enjoy the game and want to try to make it fun for everyone. So to say that I'm ruining the game for people -- well that's just a big fuck you to the time I've put into this thing.

But again. I can't control that. People are going to think what they want to think. But if you really, honestly look at the situation, you'll see that we're being thrown unfairly under the bus here. We're being made out to be cheaters unjustly because some people need a scapegoat to make themselves feel better.

If that's to be our role, fine. Just don't expect me to take it quietly.


 
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Originally posted by coreyls18
^^i have no problem with that in the 4th quarter...thats just good offense there and draining the clock. Now if that goes on in the 1st half..then it would be irritating


The problem is a HB being that effective in the 4th when he's already been running all game. He should not be that effective by then. If it was a different HB that hadn't played thats one thing, fresh legs and all.
 
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Originally posted by Fat Daddy Cash

2. Season 7 WEPL Champs. We the title last year by riding Mal as far as his giant legs would carry us and no one complained -- in fact we were applauded for it. Why is that different now?

3.



You do realize that in season 7 Mal carried 30 or more times all of like 7 times in 20 games and only carried 40 or more twice and that was the final two games. So NO ya'll havent been abusing him for seasons now.
 
coreyls18
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well maybe his stamina is high...? I pass alot with my QB and he has never finished a game under 75 energy....
Last edited Apr 1, 2009 13:29:03
 
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