Warrior General Games

Stats are with equipment... custom equipment is +1 to coverage tree. How's he look? Stud or dud?

Attributes
Physical Attributes
Strength: 30.5
Speed: 73.5 (61.5 w/o equipment)
Agility: 55.04
Jumping: 25.04
Stamina: 35.5
Vision: 59.5 (49.5 w/o equipment)
Confidence: 23.04

Football Skills
Blocking: 14.04
Catching: 26.04
Tackling: 35.5
Throwing: 9
Carrying: 14.04
Kicking: 9
Punting: 9

Special Abilities
Coverage Abilities
Change Direction: 3
Superior Vision: 3
Swat Ball: 1
Sticky Hands: 1
Closing Speed: 1

Hard Hitter Abilities
Wrap Up Tackle: 2
Diving Tackle: 2
Growl: 0
Big Hit: 0
Monster Hit: 0

Veteran Abilities
Track Star: 5

Pretty good--I wouldn't spend on any more SAs for awhile, though. IMO you probably also don't need that much EQ in vision--a few points could go to speed.

It's early in the build so it's hard to say. well built players always look a little awkward in the earlier stages.. If he's playing other level 26s im sure he's fine.. but if you continue along your path of speed to agility ratio, you're probably not going to find he's not very effective at making plays. Agility is as important as speed.

Oh and you will want to soft-cap jumping preferably before level 32. That's a big component in pass coverage.

Originally posted by SunshineMan89
Pretty good--I wouldn't spend on any more SAs for awhile, though. IMO you probably also don't need that much EQ in vision--a few points could go to speed.

Classic mistake. Speed is everything to offense, not defense. Vision and agility are equally as important as speed on defense, and he's right about SAs only because you want to take advantage of the natural leveling in caps early, and there's no long-term advantage in early SAs, in fact it's a disadvantage.. But at the same time you want to be good, even in your 20s, and it doesn't get much better for a coverage safety than Super Vision.

You have to think about it intelligently. You're playing behind the play the majority of the time, and you're usually going right to left when the pass in the air.. So what helps you more? straight line, take a while to get the train moving speed, or agility to move laterally faster, and vision to anticipate plays and break up passes or stuff runs earlier?

Taking points away from vision for speed? Maybe 6 or more out of 10 safeties will agree with that, and that's why 6 or more out of 10 safeties aren't very effective.

Originally posted by SunshineMan89
Classic mistake. Speed is everything to offense, not defense. Vision and agility are equally as important as speed on defense, and he's right about SAs only because you want to take advantage of the natural leveling in caps early, and there's no long-term advantage in early SAs, in fact it's a disadvantage.. But at the same time you want to be good, even in your 20s, and it doesn't get much better for a coverage safety than Super Vision.

Completely agree. I am looking to build my new safeties with as close to possible 1:1:1 ratio in speed/vision/agility.

Equipment, and vet points distributed about evenly except for each safety position to compliment each other... i.e. FS = a little more speed and SS = a little more vision/agility.

Thanks for the input guys. Right now I am working on getting agility and vision to the 60 cap, training jumping, and I'm done with SAs for a while.

Originally posted by secondeye
Originally posted by SunshineMan89

Pretty good--I wouldn't spend on any more SAs for awhile, though. IMO you probably also don't need that much EQ in vision--a few points could go to speed.

Classic mistake. Speed is everything to offense, not defense. Vision and agility are equally as important as speed on defense, and he's right about SAs only because you want to take advantage of the natural leveling in caps early, and there's no long-term advantage in early SAs, in fact it's a disadvantage.. But at the same time you want to be good, even in your 20s, and it doesn't get much better for a coverage safety than Super Vision.

You have to think about it intelligently. You're playing behind the play the majority of the time, and you're usually going right to left when the pass in the air.. So what helps you more? straight line, take a while to get the train moving speed, or agility to move laterally faster, and vision to anticipate plays and break up passes or stuff runs earlier?

Taking points away from vision for speed? Maybe 6 or more out of 10 safeties will agree with that, and that's why 6 or more out of 10 safeties aren't very effective.


Disagree with this completely, but I acknowledge that it partially depends on the scheme your SS is utilized in. If you're dropping back a lot in a Cover-2, speed may be less important, but it still needs to be your highest attribute. My SS plays in run support+covering screens a lot, and if you can't catch a RB (high speed/agility), it really doesn't matter how high your vision is. This is a SS, not a FS.

Vision is very important, and in general I'm a big fan, but there isn't much of a reason to ever have more than around 55 if you don't have agility 60-capped. The equipment-to-speed suggestion is mainly because of SP efficiency--your speed is fine now, but eventually it's going to have to be at least 80-85 or so (IMO). It's more efficient to attain that through equipment and focus your SPs on other things.

As for your sub-48 attributes, unless you're having serious problems missing tackles I wouldn't worry about tackling for awhile. Training strength/jumping is the route I would go.

Originally posted by secondeye
Classic mistake. Speed is everything to offense, not defense. Vision and agility are equally as important as speed on defense,
This cannot be repeated enough. I am glad I am not the only one that knows this.

"Know" and "believe" are different things.

If as a SS your vision is actually as high as your speed, you're either slow enough that you simply can't make the plays a quicker safety could (especially behind the line) or you've wasted a ton of points taking vision way past the point where it starts to yield diminishing returns.

By no means is speed "everything," but it is clearly still more important than vision. It doesn't matter how well you see a play if you aren't quick and agile enough to sniff it out.

No offense, sunshineman, but all your players are lvl 17-21. Have you even gotten to the point to see high levels of speed, vision, and agility interact? You may have retired players that played at high levels so i apologize, but at lvl 21, your players must not be fully functional if slow build, and if regular built, are probably only just reaching the first soft cap for stuff.


This has been debated a million times, but there are more than 1 way to skin a cat. There is no "ultimate build" FS or SS like you can do with RBs, DTs, or DEs.

Originally posted by SunshineMan89
"Know" and "believe" are different things.

If as a SS your vision is actually as high as your speed, you're either slow enough that you simply can't make the plays a quicker safety could (especially behind the line) or you've wasted a ton of points taking vision way past the point where it starts to yield diminishing returns.

By no means is speed "everything," but it is clearly still more important than vision. It doesn't matter how well you see a play if you aren't quick and agile enough to sniff it out.
Sure, but safeties with 100:60:60 / speed:agility:vision... after all equipment is done and vet points are assigned... talking upper 30's in level... are, in my opinion, not as effective as a safety that has 90:70:70 after all of that stuff.

If a safety had as close to a 1:1:1 ratio of each of those, that safety would be much better than one safety that has an outlier of one skill. And, you mentioned in your post about agile and quick... that is agility, not speed.

Again, while I agree with your point about 100/60/60 vs. 90/70/70, I disagree that vision should be at a 1:1 ratio with speed.

When I used the words 'quick' and 'agile' in my post, it was semantics--I could have just as easily said 'speedy.' What I wanted to refer to (in GLB terms) was some combination of speed and agility.

I just think that the marginal benefit of taking vision past a certain point is very low compared to other ways you could use SPs. That isn't necessarily speed, but if you actually take your base vision up that high you're sacrificing a lot of other things.

So with 1:1 (we're leaving agility out of this, because I agree with you that it needs to be high) speed/vision, which is it? 80/80? If this would entail you sharing a build, don't worry about it, but I'm interested to know. It seems to me like your build would diagnose the play marginally better, but mine would be faster, about as agile, and have much better secondary skills (strength, etc . . ).

i still belong to the school of thought that speed is and always will be champ in glb. that being said i feel that 73 speed is pathetically low. i'd get it to 68 asap, along with agility to 60. its great that you're taking your own path and splitting equipment btwn speed and vision, and if you're confident in it stick with it.

sunshine/challenge. i dont have a magical relationship for spd/agi/vis, but i will be shooting for 120/90/80 personally by level 45.

120/90/80?

Do you plan on having any other attributes?

Lots of good discussion here... I think what I'm going to take from this is to get speed to 68, agility to 60, and swap one piece of equipment to put vision at 55. I don't miss a lot of tackles (ration this season was 125 tackles: 11 miss against competition 5-7 levels higher), so strength/jumping training it is.

This is one reason I rolled a SS, lots of theories and trying to discover what works best, as opposed to building a cookie cutter HB, hehe.