I'm in the early stages of building my 2nd WR. My plan is to bring speed, agility and catching to the 3rd cap. A friend of mine is trying to convince me that catching only needs to be to the first cap and that the points should be invested elsewhere. Can anyone give me a definitive answer?
TtD
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At this time catching should probably be at least 55, and probably closer to 60 at higher levels. It appears that the WRs with it that high are outperforming somewhat those with catching at 50.
JD Cuda
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My WR had a couple of solid years (a league leader in a Pro league in TDs and yards) with only soft-capped catching. I agree that catching does not need to be at the third cap for you to build an elite WR. Those points would probably be better spent in jumping, for example.
cdat
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Winning awards last two seasons and tops in his conference again this season with 51 catching today.
http://goallineblitz.com/game/player_awards.pl?player_id=143278
http://goallineblitz.com/game/player_awards.pl?player_id=143278
Mob-6
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You aren't going to get a consistent answer because it is all subjective. Some people with 50% completion per attempt will tell you they are doing great with 50 catching. I don't think that is a good ratio. If you aren't at 100% completion rate you don't have an excuse to not take catching higher.
All the guys who tell you 50 catching is fine seem to be living in the Pro league bubble. They are equal in terms of level to their competition. Outside of the Pro leagues where you'll be going up against guys 10 levels higher than you some days and guys 10 levels lower than you on others, you'll want better catching because the higher level guys will shut you down without it. If you want to sacrifice until your tenth season and leave catching at 50...
The fact of the matter is catching increases your chance to bring in the ball. My high level WR with soft cap catching can't catch wide open balls at all, while my 80 catching guy who has 30 speed/agility is consistently covered with the opponents dot literally on top of him, but he brings in the ball 70% of the time against superior competition. Will you have success without catching? Sure, last season I had 30 drops with 30 TDS on 30 catching attribute, acceptable because I was putting up points. But if I had higher catching I would have brought in more catches upping those stats even more. Only you can decide how much you point it, but I'd recommend at least 60, but closer to 68.
All the guys who tell you 50 catching is fine seem to be living in the Pro league bubble. They are equal in terms of level to their competition. Outside of the Pro leagues where you'll be going up against guys 10 levels higher than you some days and guys 10 levels lower than you on others, you'll want better catching because the higher level guys will shut you down without it. If you want to sacrifice until your tenth season and leave catching at 50...
The fact of the matter is catching increases your chance to bring in the ball. My high level WR with soft cap catching can't catch wide open balls at all, while my 80 catching guy who has 30 speed/agility is consistently covered with the opponents dot literally on top of him, but he brings in the ball 70% of the time against superior competition. Will you have success without catching? Sure, last season I had 30 drops with 30 TDS on 30 catching attribute, acceptable because I was putting up points. But if I had higher catching I would have brought in more catches upping those stats even more. Only you can decide how much you point it, but I'd recommend at least 60, but closer to 68.
Last edited Jan 25, 2009 08:14:31
carumba10
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^^^
Pretty much nails it. The two common examples given why higher catching isn't needed is 1) My receiver had over 1000 yards receiving this year and he only has 50 in catching. 2) My receiver caught 60 passes and only had 1 drop with 50 catching ...ergo higher catching isn't needed.
The problem is the replays don't show or tell why an incompletion happens. It's either a PD or an outright incompletion. If the text was different ie "pass thrown to Speedy McGirk incomplete ..but would have been caught if his catching was 60"
Just use a grease monkey script and you will see in black and white the stat differences (attempts/completions) for a particular receiver. You might be surprised how bad your receiver is actually doing. I sure was.
Pretty much nails it. The two common examples given why higher catching isn't needed is 1) My receiver had over 1000 yards receiving this year and he only has 50 in catching. 2) My receiver caught 60 passes and only had 1 drop with 50 catching ...ergo higher catching isn't needed.
The problem is the replays don't show or tell why an incompletion happens. It's either a PD or an outright incompletion. If the text was different ie "pass thrown to Speedy McGirk incomplete ..but would have been caught if his catching was 60"
Just use a grease monkey script and you will see in black and white the stat differences (attempts/completions) for a particular receiver. You might be surprised how bad your receiver is actually doing. I sure was.
Mob-6
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Originally posted by carumba10
The problem is the replays don't show or tell why an incompletion happens. It's either a PD or an outright incompletion. If the text was different ie "pass thrown to Speedy McGirk incomplete ..but would have been caught if his catching was 60"
Also, looking at just drops can be extremely deceptive since pass deflections can actually be drops that the CB makes a play on AFTER the WR has already dropped it, thus they get recorded as PDs, but were essentially caused by a drop.
The problem is the replays don't show or tell why an incompletion happens. It's either a PD or an outright incompletion. If the text was different ie "pass thrown to Speedy McGirk incomplete ..but would have been caught if his catching was 60"
Also, looking at just drops can be extremely deceptive since pass deflections can actually be drops that the CB makes a play on AFTER the WR has already dropped it, thus they get recorded as PDs, but were essentially caused by a drop.
carumba10
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Many replays make it look like that for sure. I was never positive if the replays were accurate or if it was just a limitation in the visuals. I am leaning towards accurate.
Djinnt
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Originally posted by jjo13
My plan is to bring speed, agility and catching to the 3rd cap.
Sounds like a decent plan to me, as long as you don't forget that jumping, catching, and stamina are important also. And carrying to some degree.
My plan is to bring speed, agility and catching to the 3rd cap.
Sounds like a decent plan to me, as long as you don't forget that jumping, catching, and stamina are important also. And carrying to some degree.
jjo13
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Originally posted by carumba10
^^^
Pretty much nails it. The two common examples given why higher catching isn't needed is 1) My receiver had over 1000 yards receiving this year and he only has 50 in catching. 2) My receiver caught 60 passes and only had 1 drop with 50 catching ...ergo higher catching isn't needed.
The problem is the replays don't show or tell why an incompletion happens. It's either a PD or an outright incompletion. If the text was different ie "pass thrown to Speedy McGirk incomplete ..but would have been caught if his catching was 60"
Just use a grease monkey script and you will see in black and white the stat differences (attempts/completions) for a particular receiver. You might be surprised how bad your receiver is actually doing. I sure was.
Good advice and well explained as usual. Thanks
^^^
Pretty much nails it. The two common examples given why higher catching isn't needed is 1) My receiver had over 1000 yards receiving this year and he only has 50 in catching. 2) My receiver caught 60 passes and only had 1 drop with 50 catching ...ergo higher catching isn't needed.
The problem is the replays don't show or tell why an incompletion happens. It's either a PD or an outright incompletion. If the text was different ie "pass thrown to Speedy McGirk incomplete ..but would have been caught if his catching was 60"
Just use a grease monkey script and you will see in black and white the stat differences (attempts/completions) for a particular receiver. You might be surprised how bad your receiver is actually doing. I sure was.
Good advice and well explained as usual. Thanks
Dagrimeyman
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CATCHING IS BEAST if u really wanna know u can pm me and i can show u some examples
tet
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Catching does more than just help avoid drops and deflections, it also helps a WR catch a pass in stride and not have to slow down for it, so there is a better chance for YAC and long TDs.
A couple seasons ago bort also said he was increasing the amount that catching figures into targets, so the QB is more likely to throw to a WR who is more likely to make the catch.
I have a lv42 WR with 51 catching and one piece of equipment +6 catching, and I have tried swapping out that piece for speed or agility, but I found that he generally did better if I left those points in catching so his catching is 57. It is a very limited sample, subjective and anecdotal, but fwiw.
if I were building a new WR from scratch now, I would probably 3rd cap speed, then agility, then 2nd cap catching, then work on the other stuff. but that's just me.
A couple seasons ago bort also said he was increasing the amount that catching figures into targets, so the QB is more likely to throw to a WR who is more likely to make the catch.
I have a lv42 WR with 51 catching and one piece of equipment +6 catching, and I have tried swapping out that piece for speed or agility, but I found that he generally did better if I left those points in catching so his catching is 57. It is a very limited sample, subjective and anecdotal, but fwiw.
if I were building a new WR from scratch now, I would probably 3rd cap speed, then agility, then 2nd cap catching, then work on the other stuff. but that's just me.
Mob-6
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Originally posted by tetura
Catching... it also helps a WR catch a pass in stride and not have to slow down for it, so there is a better chance for YAC and long TDs.
I'm not so sure that is correct. If there is a penalty to catching balls in stride, perhaps higher catching offsets that, but if a WR has to slow down to catch a ball, it is going to be because it is a badly thrown ball, if he doesn't slow down he will out run the pass.
Catching... it also helps a WR catch a pass in stride and not have to slow down for it, so there is a better chance for YAC and long TDs.
I'm not so sure that is correct. If there is a penalty to catching balls in stride, perhaps higher catching offsets that, but if a WR has to slow down to catch a ball, it is going to be because it is a badly thrown ball, if he doesn't slow down he will out run the pass.
Bukowski
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Originally posted by Mob-6
Originally posted by tetura
Catching... it also helps a WR catch a pass in stride and not have to slow down for it, so there is a better chance for YAC and long TDs.
I'm not so sure that is correct. If there is a penalty to catching balls in stride, perhaps higher catching offsets that, but if a WR has to slow down to catch a ball, it is going to be because it is a badly thrown ball, if he doesn't slow down he will out run the pass.
Yeah, it used to be true - but not so much this season. There is something else coming into play, that's causing WRs to not catch the ball in stride, even when it didn't happen in previous seasons.
Originally posted by tetura
Catching... it also helps a WR catch a pass in stride and not have to slow down for it, so there is a better chance for YAC and long TDs.
I'm not so sure that is correct. If there is a penalty to catching balls in stride, perhaps higher catching offsets that, but if a WR has to slow down to catch a ball, it is going to be because it is a badly thrown ball, if he doesn't slow down he will out run the pass.
Yeah, it used to be true - but not so much this season. There is something else coming into play, that's causing WRs to not catch the ball in stride, even when it didn't happen in previous seasons.
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