Warrior General Games

I am building up a FS and SS to replace my players for when they retire. For whatever reason I just love the Safety position compared to most others. I also keep seeing people toss out useless, to me, advice as to "add speed" or "add jumping" or whatever else. A Safeties main reason for being there is to make the final tackle and see the play.

I have two level 7 safeties and will hopefully get signed after this season in the d-leagues. I am building them to complement each other and have been doing build progressions and trying to calculate where they will be at certain levels. Here is what I have so far:

When my safeties turn level 15 they will each have speed, agility, and vision soft capped (~48) which is fine. Now, calculating further to level 24, with the assumption that equipment will be put into speed... and without adding more skill points into speed after first soft capping them... and adding custom equipment... the speed of each safety will be ~80 by level 24. To me this is certainly enough speed as level 32 will be ~84 and level 40 will be ~88.

To me this seems like enough speed for a FS and clearly enough for a SS at those levels.

If a person is going to double cap speed to ~69 or so, I think it would be best to do so after level 21. Reason being because at level 22 the leveling points decrease a little. Might save a skill point or two by waiting until after level 21 and putting those points into something else.

Now, the question becomes, which skill is best to third cap? For a FS and SS, I think it would be best to work on Confidence and at the same time work on tackling (FS/SS) and work on strength (SS).

Point is... for a safety having >90 speed seems pointless to me.

What? Your logic on it being best to 3rd cap speed after level 21 is the exact OPPOSITE of why you should. By getting it to a high cap early on, you get more SP out of natural level gains than you would otherwise. That's why caps are so essential early on.


Either way, there is no such thing as having too much speed. It means you're always able to catch up to faster players (88 speed at level 40 isn't going to help you catch any speed HBs or WRs), and even if you're going against slower players... It puts you in the position to make a play more often. Whether it be you getting to the HB faster (minimizing his yards) or being an asset in coverage (deflecting passes instead of having to make tackles after the ball is caught). I especially don't see why you'd prioritize something like confidence over more speed. As a safety, you hopefully won't be missing many tackles or getting burned in coverage often enough for you to have to really worry too much about your morale. And strength and tackling are only useful if you're in position to make tackles in the first place.

depends on how defensive coordinator will use you, but ify ou are a traditional Free Safety, vision is just as important as speed. Why? because high vision actually reduces the errors you make in judgements on the quarterback and running backs, and lets you decipher the play earlier and also avoid pump fakes, jukes, stutter steps etc.

SO!! Pump vision and you will need less speed. but you STILL need speed! its incredibly important to have a fast Free Safety to cover the entire field. You are the last line of defense.

But this is why FS is the toughest position to build next to quarterback. You need everything, a good FS is a combo of LB and Cornerback. Needs to be able to come up and lay the wood, but also back up and defend against lightning fast receivers. I would recommend getting speed/agility/vision soft capped, then to second cap vision, then speed, then agility, you will need tackling/str in the low to mid 30's. Jumping/catching isn't really important and can wait until later. Stamina should be soft capped in time.

I completely disagree with 88 speed at level 40 from a FS/SS is too low. That is plenty for the position. A safety is essentially 10 yards away from the play and needs vision/agility to act on the play to make a tackle more than speed. I would even go as far and say getting vision and agility to the 3rd cap (68) before and always have an advantage skill point wise compared to speed would yield much better results.

If a FS/SS had speed at 50 and agility/vision at 58... I bet that player would be much better off than a player at 68 speed and 50 agility/vision at that same level.

As a Safety it is arguable that speed, agility, and vision are the three main attributes. With that said, since a FS is in coverage, or at least should be more than a SS... the capping should go as follows, in my mind:
FS = 2nd cap speed and agility while keeping vision at first cap and putting VA in vision when able
SS = 2nd cap agility and vision while keeping speed at first cap and putting VS in speed when able unless regular equipment goes into speed.

And, the bonus for leveling up is .4 points per level... going to .25 per level ( I believe) after level 21. So hurrying up and spending skill points to get to the 2nd cap (+3) does not do much good because the level gain is small and would not change much.

If I cap speed at 49 (the max before I have to pump 2 points into it), I then need to get to 60 before the +3 cap. So, in theory I have to pump in 22 points to reach that cap. At best a player might gain two points through training in that time... so that 22 goes to 18. I can pump 18 points into it and be happy but if my plan is to get to the +3 cap and leaving it at that... I am not going to want to pump more points into it until level 21. Why?

Say I pump to the soft cap and am level 6 when it is first soft capped. (22) Needing some 18 points, due to training, I can pump in 18 skill points or allow leveling to bump it up naturally. For every 5 levels (now level 11) my stat would read 53, so now I need 14 points to cap it. Wait another 5 levels, now level 16, my stat reads 55. Now it is down to 12 points to cap it. Now, wait till level 21 and my stat reads 57. I now need 8 points to cap it and then leave it. What do I gain?

In those 15 levels, I will have "saved" minimum 10 points and maximum 14 points. Those points could be used to soft cap the other attributes earlier and thus gain leveling up bonuses for 2 or 3 attributes instead of just one.

There is no such thing as too much speed for a FS.

But there sure is such a thing as too little of everything else

You're not "saving" SP by waiting to put SP into it. That's asinine. You only put a limit on your player's ceiling. 10 seasons is a long time to build a player, and the sooner you can reach a point where you'll excel above all your peers in a stat (or two) and just coast on level up gains, the better. By intentionally waiting to get certain secondary stats higher, you're also making more use out of the training system. If you go for a "well rounded" player and aim to softcap everything, you'll be sitting at 10-15% training gains for most of your players stats. Helpful, of course, but not nearly as useful as training a stat that's at, say... 25, where you'll still be getting +30% training gains. And in your first and second seasons out of the D-leagues, you usually have the luxury of being okay with certain stats that low.


I mean, at least you're still planning on getting one of the "core" stats up to 68... but it's always felt like a waste if your equipment is making up for something you lack naturally (which you would be doing for speed) rather than augmenting something you already have. Futhermore, on defense I feel that speed is the one stat that keeps on giving. More speed never hurts you, it always helps you... and at a pretty linear rate. There's no significant drop off at any point IMO. Meanwhile, past say... 60 vision isn't so great. And I don't know if I've ever seen anybody other than D-linemen with 80+ agility on defense.

He also said in another thread that an FS with 37 jumping had too much jumping. I don't understand how you can have too much of an attribute?

Originally posted by Viscount
He also said in another thread that an FS with 37 jumping had too much jumping. I don't understand how you can have too much of an attribute?

Jumping is good. I spent a season focusing on getting it up to high 30s (and fyi Bort thinks that life begins at 48 for a stat, just saying)

These are my Pass Deflection stats on my starting FS in WE Pro:
Season 6 PDs 14 (16 Games)
Season 7 PDs 19 (6 games)

That's already 3 more at only 1/3 of the season gone. I'm happy enough with Jumping for now as I have a couple of other things on the boil but I have no problem taking that baby to 48.

Originally posted by Challenge Everything
...

Now, the question becomes, which skill is best to third cap? For a FS and SS, I think it would be best to work on Confidence and at the same time work on tackling (FS/SS) and work on strength (SS).

Point is... for a safety having >90 speed seems pointless to me.

That's an interesting idea. The safety won't hardly be able to follow on deep routes, but won't mind either with that confidence. Could be a "hard hitter" build that's decent on shorter routes and run support.

Good luck!

Well I defintely don't think a safety can have too much speed. I think my FS' 89 speed makes him great in run support, he often stops HBs for short gains despite being the deepest defender:

http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=314541&pbp_id=4438016
http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=314529&pbp_id=3669569
http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=314490&pbp_id=2155877
http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=314490&pbp_id=2155822

Despite his 61 vision, he takes a terrible angle here but he has enough speed to recover and make a TD saving tackle:
http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=314529&pbp_id=3668343

V last play is a bug. happened to my fs so i ask what i could do so he didn't do it again and everyone said it was a pathing bug

depends on where you play

90+ speed is not pointless

Originally posted by Cactus71
depends on where you play

90+ speed is not pointless

QFT

for a FS you need to have great speed to be involved in any plays (Depending on game plan) I think all Safetys should have 90 plus speed to make the cover 2 a good weapon for you defense

Originally posted by Arya Stark
Originally posted by Viscount

He also said in another thread that an FS with 37 jumping had too much jumping. I don't understand how you can have too much of an attribute?

Jumping is good. I spent a season focusing on getting it up to high 30s (and fyi Bort thinks that life begins at 48 for a stat, just saying)

These are my Pass Deflection stats on my starting FS in WE Pro:
Season 6 PDs 14 (16 Games)
Season 7 PDs 19 (6 games)

That's already 3 more at only 1/3 of the season gone. I'm happy enough with Jumping for now as I have a couple of other things on the boil but I have no problem taking that baby to 48.


That could also be due to a change of some sort in your defensive scheme.

http://goallineblitz.com/game/player.pl?player_id=922040

My SS had 21 PDs all of last season, and is on pace to double that this season. I know they're totally different levels of play, but still.

My FS when in zone coverage has over 120 speed. No such thing as too much speed imo. Just need other attributes to make it worth having.